Woodworking magazines

[Nick Gibbs]

Thanks. I appreciate that.

Cheers

Nick

 

[ondablade]

To come in late. Must say that 'Pencilgate' aside I thought that that issue of BW was pretty decent - I certainly learned something from it. F&C in its latest edition seemed much improved too.

That said almost all of the UK mags have suffered terribly as a result of dumbing down, lack of investment in capability/continuity, pandering to the cheapskate end of the market and caving in to advertisers - presumably the result of 'improvements' made by the large publishing houses. (much like in banking the culture of greed and the absence of a higher vision at the top has surely played a big part in this)

How can digging this hole ever deeper be a rational strategy in these times - when it amounts to eating the seed corn?? They are trying to sell information with a modicum of entertainment mixed in - in a time when with the web, multiple TV channels and the like we're awash in information. Luckily (in only a very narrow sense) that's mostly low grade, low quality noise that can't be trusted.

Surely the central advantage of a periodical is having the time to go away and work stuff through??? Surely the key competitive advantage for the mags is the opportunity to reach for high standards - which surely they must if they are to differentiate themselves from the background noise?

Talking about it isn't enough however. It means:

- High calibre writers - literate, in depth technical understanding, widely aware and also skilled makers.
- Proven 'why didn't I think of that' methods.
- Tests/reviews which by communicating hard data and other information on capability actually enable informed buying decisions.**
- High levels of awareness of the state of the art (machines, methods, whatever) worldwide, so that topics are placed in context.
- Ditto in the case of what's going on in the industry, the hobby, and in the more general sense.

None of the above are possible when operating in a short term 'skimping' mindset - you can't for example hope to get quality output by indiscriminately dragging no doubt decent and well intended but in the end average Joe's off the street, calling them writers and then hobbling them by demanding pieces for next month's issue by the end of the week.

My personal hope is that one of these days a publisher will come along that's prepared to invest in some of these things....



**e.g. p. 24 BW. What in heaven is the point in in an infomercial like that on angle gauges when there's no mention anywhere of how accurately they measure an angle? They cost around £18. I wouldn't get too excited - another maker's example I bought in the US at that kind of price point with it's sloppy pivot and hysteresis filled electronics feels like it fell out of a Christmas cracker. What I would like to know is whether or not people paying £200 for the big 0.1 deg Bosch angle finder, or lots more for the Felder mitre gauge are in it just for the bragging rights. (or not) Out of square by 1/10 deg by the way is an error of 0.5mm on a 300mm wide cut - more than enough to matter in many situations.

 

[Nick Gibbs]

It's a hugely good point, Ian. I don't suppose there is anyone on a British woodworking magazine who wouldn't like to have the resources to do the things you recommend. They are all excellent suggestions. But I think people underestimate the tiny size of readership. When I was editing Woodworker in 1988 we had an audited circulation (ABC) of 42,000+. When I went back to market-leading Good Woodworking in 2005 the ABC was dipping below 14,000, and as they no longer publish an official circulation I suspect it is lower than that. That means very few funds to invest in writers, testing kit (how are we going to test an angle finder without an even more expensive angle finder?), photography etc.... To be honest I think it's something of a miracle Good Woodworking, F&C and British Woodworking can even touch their American rivals, who set the standard with unimaginable resources.

I don't mean that to sound like sour grapes. You take what you are given and do your best to produce the best possible magazine you can.

Cheers

Nick

 

[big soft moose]

I've just had a email this evening from Nick Gibbs asking for feedback on this months BWW. Coincidence?.

I have tried to be constructive as well as point out the shortcomings in my reply as I do want a mag like his to succeed

Mark

Ive just sent nick about a page of A4 too, i'd echo your sentiments about wanting the magazines to suceed - and to be fair to Nick an editor is never going to please everyone - ie he could adopt all my ideas and others might hate them. Also any editor is always hog tied by what is submitted, and its much easier to complain about content than it is to provide it.

 

[big soft moose]

To be honest I think it's something of a miracle Good Woodworking, F&C and British Woodworking can even touch their American rivals, who set the standard with unimaginable resources.

true , tho the british mags are ahead of them in some ways, such as not advocating bizarre and unsafe tablesaw practices (vis damiens FWW rant thread)

 

[Nick Gibbs]

Thanks for your email, Pete. You make perfectly valid points, and others that we just can't resolve (or we'd love to resolve). Some of your comments are personal views, others are objective criticism that's very helpful. It's easier to cope with this in email than have to cope with people discussing how they want to stop subscribing in public. It's not good for business, and ultimately is very unlikely to help anybody. But forums do keep us on our toes.

Cheers

Nick

 

[woodbloke]

Talking about it isn't enough however. It means:

- High calibre writers - literate, in depth technical understanding, widely aware and also skilled makers.
- Proven 'why didn't I think of that' methods.
- Tests/reviews which by communicating hard data and other information on capability actually enable informed buying decisions.**
- High levels of awareness of the state of the art (machines, methods, whatever) worldwide, so that topics are placed in context.
- Ditto in the case of what's going on in the industry, the hobby, and in the more general sense.

None of the above are possible when operating in a short term 'skimping' mindset - you can't for example hope to get quality output by indiscriminately dragging no doubt decent and well intended but in the end average Joe's off the street, calling them writers and then hobbling them by demanding pieces for next month's issue by the end of the week.

My personal hope is that one of these days a publisher will come along that's prepared to invest in some of these things....



**e.g. p. 24 BW. What in heaven is the point in in an infomercial like that on angle gauges when there's no mention anywhere of how accurately they measure an angle? They cost around £18. I wouldn't get too excited - another maker's example I bought in the US at that kind of price point with it's sloppy pivot and hysteresis filled electronics feels like it fell out of a Christmas cracker. What I would like to know is whether or not people paying £200 for the big 0.1 deg Bosch angle finder, or lots more for the Felder mitre gauge are in it just for the bragging rights. (or not) Out of square by 1/10 deg by the way is an error of 0.5mm on a 300mm wide cut - more than enough to matter in many situations.

I have to come in here as one of the 'average Joes off the street' contributors, not to Nicks magazine but to F&C. All or most of the contributors are amateurs (in the field of writing at least) and even as pro woodworkers, we get paid a pittance for a lot of hard work to produce an article...if you knew what the page rate was there's not many that would do it consistently (I have for over 10 years as it gives me pocket money for toys)
If you want the calibre of that sort of writer, then the mags would have to pay a hell of a lot more to employ professional people. If you think you could fulfill some of the criteria that you mention, I suggest you try and write an article along those lines you discuss...it's bloody hard!
Nick sums it up, as I've said more than once...the circulation of woodworking mags in the UK is simply not big enough, hence all the issues with publications - Rob, 'an average joe'

 

[Lons]

It's easier to cope with this in email than have to cope with people discussing how they want to stop subscribing in public. It's not good for business, and ultimately is very unlikely to help anybody. But forums do keep us on our toes. Cheers Nick

Nick

As one of the culprits of the above, please accept my unreserved appologies. However disappointed I may have been, it was not correct for me to express that on a public forum. #-o

This of course could never happen when you were at "the Woodworker" and when I was subscribing to that magazine and Practical Woodworking as the internet was only a dream.

I certainly would prefer that BWW is successful and my disappointment at the contents are precisely for that reason. I very much want a mag I can spend ages reading cover to cover and refer back to time after time.

I used to do that with the old Woodworkers (and still do occasionally as I have kept most of them).

As you don't have the resources, then I understand you must cut your cloth accordingly but as expressed by others, mags in general have dumbed down and I don't enjoy basic stuff anymore. If that is the calibre of your core readership then fine - I don't know :duno:

I obviously will renew my subscription if I start to enjoy the content - (if you choose to supply me ).
My wife says I'm fickle so could easily happen :?

cheer

Bob

 

[Nick Gibbs]

Thanks Bob. Don't worry. Apology accepted.

There is a balance between words to read and things to do in a magazine. That's why I put in some small 'drawings only' ideas for quick projects at Christmas this time, alongside wordier articles like the steam bending.

I'm still not sure what the 'dumbing down' refers to, because it doesn't feel like that's happened. David Savage called me the other day to say that he thought the magazine was the best in the market.

Perhaps you could email me some thoughts on the dumbing down. I have got some plans for some more detailed technical pieces, but coercing contributors to write them is hard work.

Cheers

Nick

 

[big soft moose]

I wonder if the perceived dumbing down effect , might be a manifestation of the "its not like twas when we were young" syndrome - ie that its not that the magazine has dumbed down its us undumbing up.

when one first starts out magazine articles telling you how to mark out effectively, how to cut dovetails, how to turn a simple bowl, how to sharpen you plane blade or whatever are what you need

but as time goes on you know all that stuff (alledgedly :lol: ) and you start thinking that articles like that are dumbing down - overlooking the fact that we would not have started reading the magazine in the first place if it had all been advanced content.

For example - moving the focus away from nicks mags - with "woodturning" magazine I used to buy it religiously and read it from cover to cover several times, and keep it for refference - theses days i dont subscribe and i only buy it occasionally , and usually only for a specific article , skim the rest, than chuck it in the recycling - has the magazine changed, or have I ?! 8-[

 

[Nick Gibbs]

I wonder if the perceived dumbing down effect , might be a manifestation of the "its not like twas when we were young" syndrome - ie that its not that the magazine has dumbed down its us undumbing up.-[

I didn't like to say that (for fear of sounding clever or as if I was making excuses), but it is a very well-accepted trend in publishing. You read a mag for a few years, then discover you've learnt as much as you need. That's why I've tried to make British Woodworking a good read, but if you do that too much people complain there isn't enough 'to do'. I've tried to combine projects and tests to make them more interesting (as with Olly's tray this issue), and to be more specific (like the glazing bars), rather than try to solve everything in one go (an article on everything you need to know about windows). But it is a tricky balance.

Thanks for the feedback

Nick

 

[Kalimna]

May I make another suggestion? You have stated an interest in fitting out a workshop with British machinery. Well, how about taking the other side of the story and do an article on British handtool producers? Not just the mass produced stuff, but the smaller independents like Phillyplanes. For instance, it would be nice to know of any UK custom saw or chisel builders the equivalent of Wenzloff or Blue Spruce. Just a thought.

Adam

 

[ondablade]

Hi Nick, Rob. Well done for coming on Nick. Pardon my presumption, but it beats the hell out of the editor of another UK mag I wrote to recently on this topic - he simply denied all. TBH I think some of the UK mags do very well compared to the US ones, in that it's very noticeable that many of the same factors are at work there too.

I can't for example think of a single US mag I've seen that properly tests tools and equipment, properly addresses the underlying engineering/technical issues, or publishes the sort of hard data from that testing that actually underpins buying decisions. I'm not sure why, but suspect that it's to do with liability, or cost, or expertise, or advertising revenues - probably all and more.

There's a few basics that underpin the situation though. (1) the individual reader can't expect a whole mag full of stuff every month relevant to his personal situation, (2) no mag can cover all levels/needs anyway and (3) as you say Nick - there has to be a level of 'churn' with readers coming in and leaving as they outgrow the mag. There has to be a place for the entry level reader as well as high end stuff.

One big problem though is that if one mag tries to cover all the bases it risks ending up suiting nobody. It's the classic error many organisations make in their business strategy - they try to be all things to all men, which requires the organisation to simultaneously be the best at delivering everything. It can't be done. So it's important to target specific markets/market segments, to understand their requirements, and to get good at what matters in delivering these.

On dumbing down. I can't help feeling Moose that the arithmetic is at work - that the more people talk about technical advances the less technically savvy we actually get on average. It seems to me that this is the because there's a heck of a lot of people about now with a little knowledge - the CG of writing has been lowered by the draw of this the largest market.

Sorry if I pitched the last a little close to the bone Rob, I doubt very much if I'd do as well as you as a writer. I'd equally expect though that there's lots of us that could put out decent stuff given a properly supportive context. It's quite clear for example that the switch from long term staffers to unsupported free lancers was one of the methods that the big publishers used to maximise profit - in their drive to pay f*ck all for material.

The undervaluation of good content is I think (from this very distant viewpoint) so common right across the industry that these days it's standard practice.

The big issue so far as I can tell is the matter of investment in infrastructure - building a big enough team of well paid and capable contributors, not overloading them, doing the research needed to understand broader contexts, funding the organisation for long enough to build up sales and lessen the dependence on advertisers, sorting out a legal framework that enables straight talking and so on.

Is it feasible? I don't know. It's fairly clear that the age profile of woodworkers has got older, that fewer younger people are coming into the industry/trade/hobby. Also that many of those in woodworking are operating on very low budgets using very marginal equipment. Trouble is it's almost become the norm - to the point where the public doesn't see the need to train crafts and regards woodworking (or almost anything else hands-on that replaces bullsh1tting/bragging with doing) as weird, and where any mainstream aspiration to be a high end woodworker owning decent kit is fading.

Five minutes in George Ellis' joinery book from the early 1900s shows that the guys back then would have fallen around laughing at the quality of most of the kit we consider acceptable. Yet back then it was far more expensive relative to incomes...

Does it have to be that way? I don't know the answer to that one either. But I can't help feeling that the 'profit above all, and to hell with tomorrow' attitude of the publishers is a big factor. The mags set the vibe for those considering entering woodworking, and if (in raking off short term profits) they persist in chasing the market down, reducing their business practices to the lowest common denominator and offering little by way of stuff to reach for/aspire to can it be any wonder that people are not getting enthused??

The very big question is whether or not the market is large enough to support (at any feasible level of investment) this sort of mix of focus and resourcing.

It's just a personal view, but I can't help feeling that the golden goose is not just headed for the dining table, but (by the above refusal to invest) is at least part consumed.

Maybe the rise of greater wage expectations in the Eastern economies, or (heaven forbid) a major depression will shuffle the deck enough to force some change...

 

[Nick Gibbs]

May I make another suggestion? You have stated an interest in fitting out a workshop with British machinery. Well, how about taking the other side of the story and do an article on British handtool producers? Not just the mass produced stuff, but the smaller independents like Phillyplanes. For instance, it would be nice to know of any UK custom saw or chisel builders the equivalent of Wenzloff or Blue Spruce. Just a thought.

Adam

Actually Adam, I wasn't trying to kit it out with British machinery. I am largely kitting it with British handtools, but I was idly speculating whether a router had ever been made in Britain. I do hope to get a Coronet Imp bandsaw, which was certainly made in Britain, because I consider the bandsaw to be the finest of all machines, and it would fit in my little shed. The idea is a bit of a laugh, but it will also serve important lessons in limiting the amount of tools your really need and developing hand skills in a way that doesn't appear to be too luddite or too hair-shirted. I'm restricted by space, and in keeping with the name of the mag (British Woodworking) it feels like an interesting challenge.

Cheers

Nick

 

[big soft moose]

thinking about the subject of dumbing down, I wonder if theres milleage for there to be one magazine that is consistently pitched to the higher end.

my other hobby is photography, and the starting out in dslr photography marget for magazines is pretty saturated (practical photography, photography monthly, and amateur photography being the big 3, tho there are loads of others) When i started out about ten years ago I used to take all three, but ive now outgrown them.

However in the photogaphy field there is also "proffesional photographer" which is aimed as the name suggests at pros and semi pros (and serious long term amateurs).

I realise that the photography market as a whole is probably a lot bigger than the woodwork market - but i wonder if at the proffesional end there arent more joiners, cabinet makers etc (many of whom may not subscibe to any of the woodwork mags due to them being put off by beginer orientated content) than there are proffesional photographers.

ergo might there be a market for a "profesional woodworker" type magazine ? featuring profiles of established pros, indepth projects and also have features on marketing yourself and your work, and other stuff to with running a small woodwork orientated buisness (such as websites, SEO etc)

I suspect that costs for content might be a problem - as in order to engage the pro market such a mag would need pro authors, but perhaps this could be combatted by a higher cover charge (pro photography is a fiver IIRC ).

 

[Lons]

I was idly speculating whether a router had ever been made in Britain. Nick

I know it's a long time ago Nick but I distinctly remember the B&D professional range i.e Elu, Dewalt etc coming out of the factory in Spennymoor Co.Durham and I thought they were manufactured there not just assembled - am I wrong?

I didn't like to say that (for fear of sounding clever or as if I was making excuses), but it is a very well-accepted trend in publishing. You read a mag for a few years, then discover you've learnt as much as you need. That's why I've tried to make British Woodworking a good read, but if you do that too much people complain there isn't enough 'to do'. I've tried to combine projects and tests to make them more interesting (as with Olly's tray this issue), and to be more specific (like the glazing bars), rather than try to solve everything in one go (an article on everything you need to know about windows). But it is a tricky balance.

Makes sense but I believe one of the problems is the internet in that whilst the "oldies" amonst us had to read, research and learn over time, if you ask younger people now they will tell you that anything they need to know can be found in detail on utube etc without effort and they just follow a video clip without ever really learning. "experience by numbers" - that's dumbing down.

TBH if I want to find out about a tool or bit of machinery, I ask on the forums and research on line - just done it and ordered a Metabo ROS.
I am interested in new tools and machines though and would read the tests although you can never be quite as thorough as you just can't test them all.
I want to see what other craftsmen are producing and not just in my own field.
In short, I want to be kept rivited to a publication as I would be to a good novel :lol:
Almost an impossible task I fear.

cheers

Bob

 

[Nick Gibbs]

It is interesting. When I first edited woodworking magazines 20 years ago, we were inundated with questions. It was an industry in itself answering them. We owned information. Forums have changed all that. Largely for the good.

But I think there is a limitation to forums. For some reason or other people want to read not just what their peers think, but also those that have seen many different tools and machines and can act as mediators and analysts, putting things in perspective. Of course, as a journalist I would say that. It goes to the heart of journalism v people's journalism (blogging), and it couldn't be more relevant now what with WikiLeaks etc...

Let's hope we can work together in harmony!

 

[Lons]

It is interesting. When I first edited woodworking magazines 20 years ago, we were inundated with questions. It was an industry in itself answering them. We owned information. Forums have changed all that. Largely for the good.

But I think there is a limitation to forums. For some reason or other people want to read not just what their peers think, but also those that have seen many different tools and machines and can act as mediators and analysts, putting things in perspective. Of course, as a journalist I would say that. It goes to the heart of journalism v people's journalism (blogging), and it couldn't be more relevant now what with WikiLeaks etc...

Let's hope we can work together in harmony!

Absolutely agree.

But I can't be the only one who loves books - anything technical and I devour them. Magazines I think of as luxuries and expensive if directly compared with a book but still something to look forward to dropping through the letterbox.

I use the internet extensively and value the opinions of others which if you trawl through the dross can give an informed concensis of opinion. As an example, I had been contemplating for years whether to have my eyes lasered. The companies all produced glowing marketing stats whilst the forums also told of foul ups and pain alongside success. I made the decision which was the best money I ever spent but felt comfortable knowing I was better informed.


My grown up kids have a very different attitude to publications and they are typical (except for non technical / entertainment mags). Same applies to TV IMO - just look at the number of quick fix make over progs using cardboard and poster paint, whole house in a few hours - c***!


Go to Ikea any weekend and look at the quality "throw away" stuff the kids are buying. That's the world as it is now but there is also still a sizeable market for quality products and I hope that's true of your industry as well

Ah.... the good old days :lol:

cheers

Bob

 

[Nick Gibbs]

And that, Bob, is why I reviewed the books on the back page of the last issue of British Woodworking as I did. I passionately believe that people gain the most satisfaction from life when they discover things for themselves, and the books I reviewed encourage exactly that approach to woodworking. Convenience is a drug that deadens the mind.

Nick

 

[ondablade]

Predictably enough I'd like to think that Moose's suggestion of a high end magazine makes a lot of sense - but yes, we'd have to be prepared to pay.

What you say about the web makes sense Bob, but to me it's only a part of the story. I do a lot of digging on the web too when I need to buy or figure out something, but it's a frustrating and frighteningly inefficient way of getting to good information.

So much of what gets posted and written is of very low quality, or related to very different (but unspoken) requirements to what you may have in mind - and above all is highly random and unstructured. You have to figure out the sites that attract the right people, figure out who has something useful to say, and then trawl through possibly years' worth of material to build up a picture. Even then you risk just getting the result of a consensus made up of people who hopped on a passing band wagon - but who don't have a lot of experience or discrimination.

So while perceptions and cheapskate habits could intrude, it seems very possible that a significantly more expensive but highly refined and data filled magazine makes perfect economic sense for the more serious amateur/professional woodworker. The word 'trustworthy' comes to mind.

There's no doubt that there's a younger generation that perceives the web as a quickie source, but that's surely only to an undiscriminating and less experienced person. The subset whose nature is such that they will progress seem likely to graduate pretty quickly to demanding better information.

The fact it seems is that printed media faces something of a struggle Nick. It can't hope to compete with the web in the vast volumes of crap info stakes. It seems too that the hype and dumbing down plus the one size fits all coporatisation mentioned above (which have become almost traditional in much British publishing) is a business strategy that has had its day - that day having been the 70s/80s where as you say mags were so much the primary information channel that they could afford not to care too much about more specific customer requirements.

So the challenge is presumably to figure out a form of publication more specifically adapted to a chosen segment of the market. Maybe the time is coming for more focused 'boutique' style specialist publishers again.

There's surely no reason by the way why a high quality periodical shouldn't be published on the web - so the pros and cons of paper probably need thinking about too, and the US mags seem to be investing very heavily in their web presence.

It seems though that a paper mag has a lot going for it too though....