Woodworking class cancelled for second time.

[Halo Jones]

Well folks, I am feeling rather down in the dumps tonight. From what I hear our local college has a very decent full time furniture making course and when I saw that the college also did evening classes (and a bargain at £80 for an 18 week term!) I jumped at the chance. But this is the second time I have turned up and been told it is cancelled due to lack of interest!

As I was given the course fees as a Christmas present do I:

1) Wait until September for the next round of courses.
2) Sign up for an online course (recommendations please)
3) Buy some tools (I was given £100 which means I would be half way to axminsters basic ts-200)

Any thoughts and suggestion welcome!

Halo

 

[mtr1]

What kind of techniques are you interested in? There is a lot of info on-line, here for instance.

Check out the woodwhisperer and his guild there's lots of videos on all sorts of techniques, hand and powertool.

It's based in the States, but they have a much bigger woodworking community over there.

You could also try Thomas MacDonald he's a bit of a acquired taste, but the info is sound.

 

[Halo Jones]

I'm not sure what I'm interested in yet. I definitely like the more contemporary stuff that uses sound techniques but is a bit quirky (David Savage is someone that springs to mind). Having done some teaching myself I also know that 30 min teaching can replace 6 months reading, so I'm not sure even if online stuff can replace hands on tuition. There was also access to all the proper machinery which I cannot afford to buy. The little woodworking I have done, and my personal situation, means that I would probably like to do a lot of handwork but I do realise the versatility of the router and the table saw so would not write them off for bigger projects or preparing stock.

Cheers,

Halo

PS. thanks for the links. I had not stumbled accross the tomas MacDonald site before

 

[Rob Platt]

I don`t know how much you know or what you do for a living or how old you are etc. but starting simple and learning basics and how to do everthing by hand will stand you in good stead. We are all guilty of employing jigs and machines to save time and in theory produce better work. But sometimes I wonder if in doing so we lose sight of the skills that we learnt when we were in training and developed over time and as a consequence if we would be able to achieve the results, that we now do by using those machines and jigs, if we were to do the same work by hand.
The whole skill programme should start with basics and then progress.
Personal opinion only.
Good luck with whatever way you decide to go.
All the best
Rob

 

[mtr1]

I had not stumbled accross the tomas MacDonald site before

Check out the Bombe not to everyone's taste, but a great piece of work.

 

[Halo Jones]

Hey Rob,

I guess some back story may be useful. I am mid 30s (when did that happen :shock: ), and a reasonably competent, if slow, DIYer. I have always had an interest in woodworking but no actual hands on experience. I would love to be able to make my own furniture because I dislike houses clad entirely in Ikea (although admit to having a few things myself) but cannot afford the cool stuff and would love to be able to replicate (initially) and then design some cool furniture for myself and family. This would be purely for a hobby, making presents for people, and if I ever get good enough perhaps sell a few things so one day I might afford some decent tools.

HTH.

Halo

 

[Rob Platt]

Black and decker workmate, bahco hardpoint saw, coping saw, best tenon saw you can afford, hammer, stanley knife, good 3/8 inch bevel edge chisel, sharpening stone, marking guage, combination square, plane, brace and bits, a pistol drill and bits and a load of scrap ends of par timber. Cut mortice and tenons (all types and angles) and dovetails till you`re confident and competant. Read books watch videos Rob Cosman is pretty good (though his tools are expensive) and everything else will be easy. It might be an old way of doing it but i believe in learning basics as I said in my last post. I started with less tools and an old stool as a saw horse but that was 45 years ago when the cheapest electric drill was over a weeks wages not buttons as they are now.
These days I have enough tools and machines to do just about anything but sometimes I find it easier and quicker to do it by hand if its only a couple of joints.
No doubt others on here will have different ideas as I said before personal opinions only.
All the best
Rob

 

[woodbloke]

Black and decker workmate, bahco hardpoint saw, coping saw, best tenon saw you can afford, hammer, stanley knife, good 3/8 inch bevel edge chisel, sharpening stone, marking guage, combination square, plane, brace and bits, a pistol drill and bits and a load of scrap ends of par timber. Cut mortice and tenons (all types and angles) and dovetails till you`re confident and competant. Read books watch videos Rob Cosman is pretty good (though his tools are expensive) and everything else will be easy. It might be an old way of doing it but i believe in learning basics as I said in my last post. I started with less tools and an old stool as a saw horse but that was 45 years ago when the cheapest electric drill was over a weeks wages not buttons as they are now.
These days I have enough tools and machines to do just about anything but sometimes I find it easier and quicker to do it by hand if its only a couple of joints.
No doubt others on here will have different ideas as I said before personal opinions only.
All the best
Rob

Why oh why when a list of tools is recommended is one usually always missed out? The first and most important acquisition to develop skills is a decent, sturdy bench and in my view at least, should be the very first thing that you need to think about. Without one, unless you want to hone your Jap skills and work on the floor, you're not going to get very far. It doesn't have to be one of the highly desirable Maguire benches but could simply be made from a 4x4 softwood frame (with diagonals to prevent racking)and a 60mm thick multilayerd mdf top (finished with some sacrificial hardboard if needed)
Plenty of members hereabouts have made their own benches, so the cost needn't be too great...if Paul Chapman's about he might post a pic of his. I've used it and it's a nice piece of kit - Rob

 

[Dibs-h]

Hey Rob,

I guess some back story may be useful. I am mid 30s (when did that happen :shock: ), and a reasonably competent, if slow, DIYer. I have always had an interest in woodworking but no actual hands on experience. I would love to be able to make my own furniture because I dislike houses clad entirely in Ikea (although admit to having a few things myself) but cannot afford the cool stuff and would love to be able to replicate (initially) and then design some cool furniture for myself and family. This would be purely for a hobby, making presents for people, and if I ever get good enough perhaps sell a few things so one day I might afford some decent tools.

HTH.

Halo

Halo

I started off like you - the only woodwork (taught) I really did was over 20yrs at school when they did it. Very little since - but "need certainly is the mother of all innovation" in my case anyway.

For many years my kit was cheap stuff from the sheds and just a corded drill, cheap router, cheap cordless and a circular saw (and some handtools). By cheap I mean - Performance Pro and Nu-Tool. and it did perfectly well.

The key (for me) was understanding the structural nature of what I was wanting to achieve and then selecting the necessary joints. Having a Mechanical Engineering background probably helps here.

Get yourself a space to work in, needn't be big and a small selection of tools and practise basics - like joints. Softwood is perfectly fine.

I assure you - it an't rocket science!

HIH

Dibs

p.s. I bench would make like so much easier - but even a cheap workmate clone thingy would be a very good start & would allow you to practise.

 

[woodbloke]

I bench would make like so much easier - but even a cheap workmate clone thingy would be a very good start & would allow you to practise.

While that seems an acceptable option, in my view they are what they are...a small, lightweight, portable DIY bench. For example, learing how to plane on one is no good (it moves at the slightest provocation and is the wrong height) and as for chopping a mortise by hand on one 8-[...
If you're going to do this woodworky stuff seriously and want to learn the techniques, spend the money that you would have coughed up on a Workmate on materials for a decent softwood bench - Rob

 

[Halo Jones]

Thanks for all the feedback.

I am currently finishing off a 12x14 shed where I will be definitely be having enough room for doing some woodwork but the space will be shared with bicycles, a motor bike, lawnmower etc so cannot have a whole ton of machinery.

I would agree about the need for a workbench and already have a design in mind after another post I made on the forum a while ago and have also picked up a decent looking record face vice from the bay (using the inlaws workmate has been useful for DIY but I couldn't imagine doing any serious woodwork on it).

I have also started to pick up some hand tools. Phoning about a 4 1/2 bailey plane advertised in the local paper I also picked up another wooden hand plane, a nice set of chisels an auger bit set and hand drill plus a couple of spoke shaves for £20. I am very grateful to the retired joiner (well into his 80s) who was very happy to hear that I was just starting to get interested in woodwork and was happy to practically give his things away. It was also strange to think he had had the bailey since he was an apprentice just before WWII and that one of the spoke-shave was salvaged off a sinking ship up in Thurso where he was repairing ships during the war!!! I have also purchased some waterstones and am slowly learning how to use them (but again I think some one-to-one tuition would have beaten watching countless you-tube videos and reading many articles!).

Finally, I was looking forward to the course because with a 2.5 y.old and another due immenently, it meant I would actually have a dedicated 2 h a week where I could actually learn and do!

Narrowing things down, it seems the money burning a hole in my pocket will either go towards material for the workbench or towards a table saw. I will apply for the course in September it will hopefully go ahead!

Cheers,

Halo

 

[BelgianPhil]

Finally, I was looking forward to the course because with a 2.5 y.old and another due immenently, it meant I would actually have a dedicated 2 h a week where I could actually learn and do!

I started a course in September and with a 3 year old and a 10 month old i know exactly what you mean. The course i'm taking allows us to work on whatever we want and ask the instructor for help or a demo when we need it. Sometimes we only chat for 5 minutes but by being away from the kids i have that two hour dedicated window of productiveness

 

[jumps]

Thanks for all the feedback.

I am currently finishing off a 12x14 shed where I will be definitely be having enough room for doing some woodwork but the space will be shared with bicycles, a motor bike, lawnmower etc so cannot have a whole ton of machinery.

I would agree about the need for a workbench and already have a design in mind after another post I made on the forum a while ago and have also picked up a decent looking record face vice from the bay (using the inlaws workmate has been useful for DIY but I couldn't imagine doing any serious woodwork on it).

I have also started to pick up some hand tools. Phoning about a 4 1/2 bailey plane advertised in the local paper I also picked up another wooden hand plane, a nice set of chisels an auger bit set and hand drill plus a couple of spoke shaves for £20. I am very grateful to the retired joiner (well into his 80s) who was very happy to hear that I was just starting to get interested in woodwork and was happy to practically give his things away. It was also strange to think he had had the bailey since he was an apprentice just before WWII and that one of the spoke-shave was salvaged off a sinking ship up in Thurso where he was repairing ships during the war!!! I have also purchased some waterstones and am slowly learning how to use them (but again I think some one-to-one tuition would have beaten watching countless you-tube videos and reading many articles!).

Finally, I was looking forward to the course because with a 2.5 y.old and another due immenently, it meant I would actually have a dedicated 2 h a week where I could actually learn and do!

Narrowing things down, it seems the money burning a hole in my pocket will either go towards material for the workbench or towards a table saw. I will apply for the course in September it will hopefully go ahead!

Cheers,

Halo

Sounds to me like you have your head on the right way round - I hope you manage to get on the course, and that it runs!

Personally I don't see 'hand tools' as necessarily the basics; it could be argued that understanding how any hand, or power tool, interacts with a jig (of any sort) is very basic too. Making and operating a foot lathe is probably a few steps up from using an electric one as well Find your own satisfactions.

 

[Rob Platt]

As i said there will be differing opinions. The one advantage of what I`ve suggested is that its all easily stored away until required. If you have somewhere to put a bench fine good luck. All the best. Rob

 

[tomatwark]

As someone who has been woodworking as a profession for over 25 years and have taught it as well there is some very good advice for you in this thread.

I have one thing to add take it in small steps, don't see a plan for a bow fronted chest of drawers for example and think I will start with that.

Find your self a small project such as a stool or coffee table and take it slowly, speed will come with time and all the things you will have learnt from the small projects all come into play when you start on something more complicated.

Tom

 

[Melinda_dd]

Haven't read the whole thread as have college studying to do!!.....
I signed up for a level 1 joinery.... 2 septembers ago in the evening.... cancelled due to lack of interest
Then signed up for a 10week evening course cost £150..... touch and go as to whether it was to run... Last minute enrolment made it run, I was taught basically the whole of level 1 first year in 10 weeks! This christened it for me... I wanted to go on to get some qualifications in woodwork.
Last summer signed up for Level 2 Diploma in site carpentry and joinery (they said they may run a furniture making course in the evening, but didn't.... due to lack of interest! I was gutted as that's what I wanted) So I had to take the site carpentry one.... A week before I was told don't go to college until told as not sure we have enough numbers! Eventually I got the call they have enough people, so here I am about 5 months in, an A* and an A for my assessments so far and am loving it.
My advice keep on with it something will come up for you.

Sorry for rambling

 

[MakerBot2295]

I'm in West Fife and would have considered that course if Id been aware of it, but checking the local college websites didn't reveal anything more exiting than 'woodworking', fortunately I found a Furniture Restoration class in Falkirk to do instead.

Where was it being held I will see about getting my name down for september as well?.

Bruce

 

[Halo Jones]

Hi Bruce,

The course was on at the main campus of Fife College in Kirkcaldy. I spoke with the admissions people and they were surprised that the course was not being subscribed to. Apparently the way it was run the first few weeks were teaching (which I think amounted to how not to loose fingers in the various machinery) and then people were free to get on with their own projects. The projects were only limited to whether you could get your wood in car because there was no storage in the college. Projects ranged from bird tables, radiator covers to tables and chests of drawers.

I have been told that they are going to "rebrand" the course and market it for September. There are two classes a week with a maximum of 8 in each class but they need at least 6 each night for it to be viable.

So please keep your eyes open and sign up for September!

I live in Fife but work in Dundee so Falkirk would be too far for me but I would consider Perth or Dundee if anyone spots courses around there.

Halo

 

[acewoodturner]

Hi Halo

I've pm 'd you!

I did the full time course about 10 years ago at Fife College (now renamed Adam Smith). When the part time evening classes were run regularly it was easy to tell they had been in the night before as all the planer and thicknesser blades were chipped and not just nicked. Most of the old pensioners who attended the classes used to put reclaimed wood through them that were either full of nails or had grit in them. Most of the machines were seriously abused by them and the full time lecturers used to hate the classes for that as it delayed the machine shop operations till the technician got round to changing blades etc.
There also used to be classes at the V5 building in Viewfield Industrial Estate when it was Glenrothes College before the merger and I dont know if they have continued them.

Its not only the part time classes that are in danger of finishing though, the ft classes barely attract enough students and of those less than 1/2 even pass the courses.
The furniture course is not seen as 'sexy' now and there are very little resouces put into it with the subsequent consequences of classes both ft and pt being chopped.
The last 12 years have seen 3 venue moves for the courses, with the space allocated at each move being halved and a high turnover of lecturers, with most of the new ones getting even less hours. My mate who was a lecturer there was working about a 70 + hour week when he was full time and when he changed to 18 hours pt ended up working over 30 hrs a week. All this as he was dedicated to his students but the college just shafted him in the end. He gave up lecturing 3 years ago and would never go back.
I could go on and elaborate but dont want to in case I get sued because that it is the mentality of the place.
Its probably the same the length and breadth of the country unfortunately!

Mike

 

[Halo Jones]

Hi Mike,

All I can say is that I hope the full time course did OK by you (I am assuming it did because you are here now).

It didn't cross my mind that the machines would get abused but I can see exactly what you mean about folks tight for money bringing in some "old wood" to make their bird tables with and "accidently" chipping the machines!

I still hope they start it again and can get enough interest. £80 for 18 weeks of peace to indulge myself in woodworking still seems a bit of a bargain.

Halo.