Woodturning Tools

[morpheus83uk]

Hello,

I have been doing woodturning for about a year now and I bought the Axminster essential set as it is called now. However I am looking to upgrade some of the tools and expand what I have.

I am looking for another 3/8 Spindle Gouge, 3/8 Bowl gouge, 1/2 bowl gouge but I have some questions about some other tools I have seen which I would assume are classed as specialist maybe?

Anyway the spindle gouges and bowl gouges I have found that Henry Taylor, Hamlet (same company from what I can gather), Robert Sorby and Crown are all definite step ups from what I currently have. I use the fingernail profile on both my spindle and bowl gouges. I have also read that potentially certain flutes maybe better for certain grinds... But everything is a bit of a nightmare... I think from what I have read (and this could be wrong!) that the parabolic (or elliptic as I think they are interchangeable terms) flute would be better for the bowl gouge? However no one seems to state what the flute design is on the told if its V, U or parabolic... now on Robert Sorby I think they said Deep Flute which I think is parabolic but again I could be wrong. When looking I cant really tell the different between what I am reading and visually seeing them but that could just be me not understanding what I am looking for!

So that's really my first question does any particular flute design make itself better for a particular grind or doesn't it matter? And if so what would be best and is parabolic the better choice of flute design?

As for the tools themselves I am happy to accept any recommendations that people have but I am looking at something which will last a while and also hold a good cutting edge. During my research I found that there seems to be M2 HSS, M42 Cryo, M2? Cryo, and PM? Looking at prices and some googling around M42 Cryo seems to be stronger because of its added carbon and the edge apparently lasts longer... However it may not get as sharp as the M2 HSS but will take longer to profile as its stringer steel which makes sense. The PM versions seem to be the most expensive so I am expecting these to be really sharp and hold their edge for a good while too. I think however I am probably not in the league for PM tools yet I would expect professionals etc to be using them!

So my question is here does anyone have any experience or recommendations on the M2 vs M42 Cryo vs PM steel? And is my research correct in the fact of M42 will hold an edge longer but wont be as sharp as the M2 so the M2 would give a better finish than the M42 but the M42 would continue cutting longer maybe like 2x as long before needing to be sharped?

As for the specialist question...

I am looking at things like the Mushroom Tool, Beading Tools, Crush Grind Tools and also looking to have a go at making some hollow forms. With regards to the hollow forms would anyone recommend starter tools or if a set would be better and if so what tools / sets would people recommend and why? As for the individual tools I mentioned what do people think of them? Are they worth it?

Thank you and sorry for the long post I hope it shows I have at least given a good attempt at getting the answer myself but just not quite there yet and would like that extra bit of guidance!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I have an Ashley Isles spindle gouge which is excellent but my Crown Cryo is better.

 

[J-G]

When looking I cant really tell the different between what I am reading and visually seeing them but that could just be me not understanding what I am looking for!

I'm sure you can understand what shape a 'V' tool is, but the difference between A 'U' and a Parabolic could well be more difficult to visualize. Here is a drawing of both; which may help you.

The height of the 'U' may well be more or less than I have drawn. The salient point is not affected by this.

 

[Sideways]

I would not overthink it.
Suggest you buy a 3/8" bowl gouge from the crown cryo range. Black handles.
If you like it, you can buy the 1/2" next

M42 is a type of "tool steel". It is intended for tools used to drill and cut metal, operating at high temperatures.

Cutting and pasting :
"The common chemical composition of M42 cobalt steel is 1.1% carbon, 8.25% cobalt, 9.5% molybdenum 3.9% chromium, 1.2% vanadium and 1.6% tungsten."

Think "chrome vanadium" and "chrome moly" steels used in spanners and socket sets which require toughness, and "cobalt" drill bits used for much longer life in hard to drill materials like stainless steel.
This steel is all about the alloying elements, not the carbon percentage.

Lastly, the cryo bit is part of the heat treatment of the steel when the tool is forged. It has the effect of creating a finer grain structure throughout the steel which does translate into better edge holding.

Simply, that is a very sophisticated steel compared to a simple carbon or even High Speed Steel. It is a big step up. It will cost a lot more. You should be able to recognise that it's better.

Particle Metallury steels are even more rarified. Leave those for later, if ever.

A final thought. Turning isn't about ultimate sharpness. Turners don't generally polish and hone the edge of their tools. That's for carvers. Turners mostly accept a "decent" edge striaght off the grinder or belt, get on with the job and go back to the grinder every few minutes to maintain it.
So I wouldn't get hung up on which is sharpest arguments. They'll all be sharp enough off the belt, but some steels stay usably sharp for longer.

Hope this helps

 

[Tris]

Parabolic flute on bowl gouge: more 'meat' in the tool for strength as it's cutting edge is farther out from the rest. Sometimes needs the 'heel' grinding back to clear tighter radii.
U shaped flute on spindle gouges: allows more cutting edge on the width of the gouge and a slimmer profile to get into finer details on a spindle.

At least that's my fairly simplistic take on it

 

[Terry - Somerset]

I started with an Axminster set and added to it over the years. The Crown Cryo gouges seem particularly good at holding an edge.

A purely personal take - too often those who are relatively new to the hobby assume that different gouges and grinds will somehow improve performance and finish.

In my case it was clear that it was principally poor technique - the solution is to use a consistent average grind and practice until you are completely proficient. Only then can you be reasonably confident that changing angles, profiles, alloys etc is really making a difference.

The result - when I added to the basic Axminster set I tended to go for extra functionality - heavier weight scraper, beading tools, smaller spindle gouge etc.

 

[HamsterJam]

I have tools from different manufacturers including Henry Taylor, Sorby, Ashley Isles, Hamet, et al
All are good quality HSS tools and hold their edges well. Must admit, I haven’t given any thought to U vs parabolic or whether M42 is better. (AFAIK I don’t have any M42 tools).

Amongst them I have two Taylors HS84 1/4” ‘superflute’ gouges which I like and use a lot - one is a standard grind, the other has a secondary bevel.

If you are buying better tools, it maybe worth visiting your sharpening method too (Oops - I mentioned the S word ). You want achieve an adequate edge quickly (so you can get back to the lathe) while removing minimal material to protect your investment.

 

[morpheus83uk]

Thank you all for your great advice and explanations on everything! the Parabolic vs U shapes is much more clear now as is the steel discussion. What I am gathering is that M42 is a stronger steel and should hold its edge more and the Crown Cryo which has been mentioned by a number of people seems to be a good gouge!

The reason for the question on the holding the edge was mainly because I attend a club so as I want to use my tools there I want to be able for them to hold an edge for a longer portion of the time I am there. The tools I have now have lasted me well, and I have learned and made mistakes while attempting to get a fingernail profile and ground too much steel off as I am sure most people do when the first start! So now I am getting the same grind every time I sharpen I am looking to upgrade a bit!

Does anyone have any experience with the Crown M42 Cryo razor edge tools? Are they worth the "razor egde" tag? I appreciate I am going to be doing the same sharpening process but if they actually are sharper or just hold there edge better then in my mind at least they should be better than just HSS or the standard cryo tools?

Does anyone have any advice about hollowing tools where to start or any experience with the specialist tools I have mentioned?

Thank You All Again for your help and advice so far!

 

[Stigmorgan]

Get yourself a diamond sharpening card, I got mine from axminster, I use it to renew the edge of my steel a few times before going back to the grinder, your gouge will last much longer this way.

 

[Katomi woodsmith]

Get yourself a diamond sharpening card, I got mine from axminster, I use it to renew the edge of my steel a few times before going back to the grinder, your gouge will last much longer this way.

Being new to turning as well the advice to get a sharpening card or equivalent is the best advice I could give
As someone here told me keeping the tool sharp will save a lot of hassle
Tool wise I have a selection of cheep ultra budget through to marple tools
The ultra budget have broom stick like handles, that make my osteoarthritis in the hand hell
The marple have better shape with more body, I still hurt after a couple of hours
Axminster do a vid on sharpening,

 

[Phil Pascoe]

You have a lathe. Make handles that suit you, it's what it's for.

 

[Katomi woodsmith]

Duaa. Anyone seen a brain I seem to have put mine out with the wood shavings. Lol
Yea I prob will, the only reason I have not done so yet is they were my dads, and it does not yet feel right to make new handles for ‘his’ tools

 

[Vulcan]

On impulse I bought a Crown Cryo M42 Razor Edge 3/8” spindle gouge some years ago. It doesn’t seem to hold an edge any longer than my Henry Taylor of the same size, and is certainly not any nicer to use.