Wooden hand plane advice?

[Chris152]

I decided to sharpen another of dad's old planes and have ago. It works fine though I struggle to set it properly, practice I guess. Can anyone advise what size it is based on this photo? (measurement's in inches.)

Also, the handle just falls off - should I just put some wood glue in to hold it?

Thanks

Chris

 

[AndyT]

It's 14" long - that was easy!

It's a "razee" jack plane. Very popular in school woodwork departments for many years. The iron will probably be about 2 1/4" wide. It should be sharpened with a visible camber (curve) to the cutting edge so it takes a shaving which is thickish in the middle but disappears at either side.

A very useful plane for trueing and dimensioning sawn timber.

 

[Jacob]

I decided to sharpen another of dad's old planes and have ago. It works fine though I struggle to set it properly, practice I guess. Can anyone advise what size it is based on this photo? (measurement's in inches.)

I'd guess about 14 inches

Also, the handle just falls off - should I just put some wood glue in to hold it?

Thanks

Chris

Yes why not?

 

[custard]

If you only have one wooden plane then that's the one to have. And the razee style is particularly good because the "scoop" taken out of the body has the effect of lowering the handle position, which is very appropriate for modern, slightly higher benches.

It's fine to glue the handle back, if you use PVA you'll need to figure out a way of applying pressure for 30 minutes or so while it sets. If that proves problematic then you could try liquid hide glue, which doesn't need pressure,

http://www.axminster.co.uk/titebond-liq ... ue-ax22595

I wouldn't use epoxy, if Epoxy fails it could rip a chunk out of the timber along the way, and this is a tool you'll want to keep using for many years.

Good luck!

 

[Chris152]

Yep, I thought about 14 inches too. #-o Oh dear... (I was thinking 5, 6, that kind of thing - but just checked my 5 1/2 an it's about the same length.)
The blade's 2" wide and has a camber as you describe Andy.
I'll get some glue in the handle and get on with trying to use it. But do these have *anything* over metal ones? It's nice to use because it was dad's, but that'll wear thin with all this tapping to try to get it set right.

 

[Chris152]

If you only have one wooden plane then that's the one to have. And the razee style is particularly good because the "scoop" taken out of the body has the effect of lowering the handle position, which is very appropriate for modern, slightly higher benches.

It's fine to glue the handle back, if you use PVA you'll need to figure out a way of applying pressure for 30 minutes or so while it sets. If that proves problematic then you could try liquid hide glue, which doesn't need pressure,

http://www.axminster.co.uk/titebond-liq ... ue-ax22595

I wouldn't use epoxy, if Epoxy fails it could rip a chunk out of the timber along the way, and this is a tool you'll want to keep using for many years.

Good luck!

I just tried and I can clamp it easily, so PVA it is.
Thanks!

 

[custard]

But do these have *anything* over metal ones?

Plenty. They're lighter than a metal jack, and they're much slicker as they move over the workpiece. They don't crack if dropped on a concrete floor and they don't rust in an unheated shed. I can work 10 or 15% faster with one of those than with the equivalent 05 or 5 1/2 metal bodied jack. The large flat sides makes them more stable for a beginner when used as a shooting plane.

Adjustment gets faster and faster with practise, incidentally your plane has a "strike button" down towards the toe which helps with adjustment, that's another little detail that's desirable in a wooden jack. In time you may want to replace your battered strike button with an Ebony, Blackwood, Rosewood, Boxwood, or Holly version. I can send you a free blank in any of those timbers when and if you want to give that a go.

 

[worn thumbs]

Thats what my old woodwork teachers called a Technical Jack plane.Quite a handy tool;learn to use it and you will find a whole range of bargain planes falling within your grasp as so few people seem to bother learning to use wooden planes any more.They work brilliantly,especially on wetter wood and are much lighter to heave around.

 

[custard]

A reasonable question to ask might be, "if wooden jacks are so good then why doesn't everyone use one?"

-they're rubbish for planing down the edges of plywood. The glass hard UF glue used in ply will wear a groove along the sole of a wooden plane in no time. When plywood started to become widely used after the 2nd World War it effectively spelt the end for the wooden jack
-they also wear out faster than a metal plane, in particular you'll often find a small hollow worn into the sole immediately in front of the mouth. The remedy is a patch of harder wood let in and smoothed down, but few people have the skill or patience to do that
-DIY-ers want instant results, so investing the time to learn how to set up and adjust a wooden plane isn't for them
-making the lateral adjustment with hammer taps is often thought of as clumsy and inefficient, that's a bit weird as even on the most expensive Lie Nielsen or Norris I find the lateral adjustment is only good for rough approximate settings, to make a tiny precise lateral adjustment on any plane you'll find experienced woodworkers generally use a light tap from a small hammer, chisel handle, or whatever else is lying on the bench

 

[Chris152]

That's great - thanks for the replies. I thought it was just a memory sat on the shelf and only got it out to try last night because I've been spending all my time trying to reorganise the garage and hadn't tried to work with a piece of wood for days. It does feel nice and makes a lovely sound as it cuts.

The strike button - that's to bring the blade forward? I thought it was the remains of a handle and did wonder why it looked so damaged... And thank you Custard for the offer of a blank - sounds great, though I'm not sure how I'd shape it? The base has a few heavy-ish score marks but no apparent concave, and it seems flat overall. I guess that's something I can work on. And it being good for shooting is perfect timing (well, once I can actually work again in the garage).

Tap tap tap. It seems to go from one extreme to the other, and when I get it right it doesn't last that long, it backs off again because I didn't lock it in place hard enough in case I advanced the blade again, but I'm sure that's practice.

If I can get on with it I'll definitely be looking out for a longer version for jointing etc.

Brilliant - thanks!

ps with the handle being loose I soon discovered that dropping it on the floor doesn't result in it cracking. It's now firmly glued in place.

 

[bugbear]

On adjustment, at least it's less critical in a jack - adjusting a wooden smoother is quite difficult!

Judging the balance of how hard to tap, and how tight to set the wedge, is really just practice. It takes a while
to learn the skill, but when you have, adjustment is VERY quick indeed.

And a waxed woodie jack beats a bailey #5 or #5 1/2 out of sight for fast work.

BugBear

 

[swagman]

If the bed and wedge abutments haven't been checked for alignment in a long time, there is a good chance your going to experience some performance issues with that wooden plane. The local experts should be able to steer you in the right direction on the how too's of fettling in.

 

[Jacob]

14" school jack plane is same as a no.5 in length and blade width but a bit wider bodied. I just weighed them; 3lbs and 4.5lbs so that's a big difference.
But this disadvantage of the steel plane is offset by its speed, ease, precision of blade adjustment/removal/replacement. Also helped by the use of thinner blades which are much quicker to sharpen and can be done easily without power grinder.
There's a lot of down-time with hand planes so these things make a huge difference. This is why the steel plane dominates, even though much more expensive than the woody (back in the day).
Yes you can make good use of a woody; it'll save some energy* but in the end be a lot slower, even more so if precision is required. But if that's not an issue then go for it!

PS strike button is for loosening and/or retracting the blade. Or a sharp bash on the heel. For tightening tap the wedge. To increase set, tap the nose, or the blade itself

* but if you don't have a grindwheel of some sort then there is no chance of saving energy with a woody, due to the thickness of the old blades

PPS on the other hand the very long woody jointers are well worth having. 22" or more would be a very heavy and expensive steel plane but no prob with a woody and it suddenly come into its own.

 

[Jacob]

.....
-making the lateral adjustment with hammer taps is often thought of as clumsy and inefficient, that's a bit weird as even on the most expensive Lie Nielsen or Norris I find the lateral adjustment is only good for rough approximate settings, to make a tiny precise lateral adjustment on any plane you'll find experienced woodworkers generally use a light tap from a small hammer, chisel handle, or whatever else is lying on the bench

LN and Norris both suffer from the useless Norris adjuster. Precise adjustment easy with the totally superior Stanley Bailey design, no tapping required!
The Norris adjuster looks so neat and simple. It tempts people to buy the planes but unfortunately it just doesn't work very well.

 

[Racers]

.....
-making the lateral adjustment with hammer taps is often thought of as clumsy and inefficient, that's a bit weird as even on the most expensive Lie Nielsen or Norris I find the lateral adjustment is only good for rough approximate settings, to make a tiny precise lateral adjustment on any plane you'll find experienced woodworkers generally use a light tap from a small hammer, chisel handle, or whatever else is lying on the bench

LN and Norris both suffer from the useless Norris adjuster. Precise adjustment easy with the totally superior Stanley Bailey design, no tapping required!
The Norris adjuster looks so neat and simple. It tempts people to buy the planes but unfortunately it just doesn't work very well.

Only Norris "suffer" from the Norris adjuster LN have the Stanley/record adjuster.

Pete

 

[Jacob]

.....
-making the lateral adjustment with hammer taps is often thought of as clumsy and inefficient, that's a bit weird as even on the most expensive Lie Nielsen or Norris I find the lateral adjustment is only good for rough approximate settings, to make a tiny precise lateral adjustment on any plane you'll find experienced woodworkers generally use a light tap from a small hammer, chisel handle, or whatever else is lying on the bench

LN and Norris both suffer from the useless Norris adjuster. Precise adjustment easy with the totally superior Stanley Bailey design, no tapping required!
The Norris adjuster looks so neat and simple. It tempts people to buy the planes but unfortunately it just doesn't work very well.

Only Norris "suffer" from the Norris adjuster LN have the Stanley/record adjuster.

Pete

Some of the LN planes have norris type adjusters. Do Veritas? I can't be bothered to look.
Weirdest of all were the new Stanley planes with Norris adjusters which also don't work too well. They just didn't seem to appreciate what they had. All that R&D invested and they still just blindly follow a fashion! A missed opportunity big time - except for the clunky Norris style adjuster it's a very good plane.

 

[Racers]

LN and Norris both suffer from the useless Norris adjuster. Precise adjustment easy with the totally superior Stanley Bailey design, no tapping required!
The Norris adjuster looks so neat and simple. It tempts people to buy the planes but unfortunately it just doesn't work very well.

Only Norris "suffer" from the Norris adjuster LN have the Stanley/record adjuster.

Pete

Some of the LN planes have norris type adjusters. Do Veritas? I can't be bothered to look.
Weirdest of all were the new Stanley planes with Norris adjusters which also don't work too well. They just didn't seem to appreciate what they had. All that R&D invested and they still just blindly follow a fashion! A missed opportunity big time - except for the clunky Norris style adjuster it's a very good plane.

Just been through the LN website and I can't see one plane with a Norris adjuster, some have adjusters like block planes but they don't do the lateral adjustment so can't "suffer from the useless Norris adjuster".


Pete

 

[bugbear]

Some of the LN planes have norris type adjusters. Do Veritas? I can't be bothered to look.
Weirdest of all were the new Stanley planes with Norris adjusters which also don't work too well. They just didn't seem to appreciate what they had. All that R&D invested and they still just blindly follow a fashion! A missed opportunity big time - except for the clunky Norris style adjuster it's a very good plane.

Just been through the LN website and I can't see one plane with a Norris adjuster, some have adjusters like block planes but they don't do the lateral adjustment so can't "suffer from the useless Norris adjuster".

Pete

You can't prove Jacob wrong by just checking something as boring as facts! :lol:

And I should know. :roll:

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

Pretty similar to a norris adjuster here. They have omitted the lateral adjustment part of it which is sensible as it doesn't work. Hence Custard and his little hammer. He'd still need the hammer if it laterally adjusted norris style.

If you want to argue about whether or not it is a Norris adjuster-like then you are missing the point - which is that the standard Stanley bailey design works brilliantly and doesn't need tapping with a hammer.

 

[woodbrains]

Pretty similar to a norris adjuster here. They have omitted the lateral adjustment part of it which is sensible as it doesn't work. Hence Custard and his little hammer. He'd still need the hammer if it laterally adjusted norris style.

If you want to argue about whether or not it is a Norris adjuster-like then you are missing the point - which is that the standard Stanley bailey design works brilliantly and doesn't need tapping with a hammer.

Hello,

No, that does have the lateral adjustment bit, if you choose to use it. Stanley's version of the Norris adjuster wasn't any good because Stanley made a bloody hash at manufacturing it. Too much slip and lash everywhere. The Veritas one is very good. That said, if you are going to use a woodie, you need to learn hammer adjustment anyway, and once you have it, you can use it where you feel appropriate. I actually prefer hammer adjustment planes to the Bailey adjuster, but use any without complaint, they all work.

Mike.