Wood sample set

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S1ider

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Hi all, ive joined this forum in hoping someone maybe able to help me. I dont so much build things as more restore antiques etc. Wood identification is important to me. I have a wood identification kit of over 60 wood samples. Its a fairly old one that i have been given. Each piece has an impressed number in the end grain but no paperwork or labels to identify what each of the sample is. Im certain there would have been a list originally. Whats the chances i can find that list or who or what company put the set together ?
 
There is something uniquely fascinating about those wood sample sets isn't there?

I've got a few similar examples as in this photo,

Woods.jpg


At the top is a book called "What Wood Is That" by Herbert Edlin with a pull out section containing a lot of veneer thickness samples.

Lower right is an example of what veneer merchants used to hand out instead of catalogues, these are actual veneer samples, however most veneer merchants shut up shop twenty or thirty years ago and the remaining ones now just post photos on their web site. Unfortunately I guess the manufacturer of your sample set has also long ceased trading, so you'll need to find someone with an identical set who can share the key notes.

Lower left is a book called "The Identification Of Woods Used In Antique Furniture" from the Antique Collectors Club, it contains larger actual samples of common antique furniture woods.

They are nice, but they're all pretty useless.

The problem with all of them is that they show unfinished, new timbers. Add umpteen coats of button shellac and a hundred plus years and most timbers just go a dark, treacly brown! The other uncomfortable fact about timber is that no two trees are the same, in my workshop I could show you seven or eight different samples of genuine Indian Rosewood that all look totally different, ranging from pale brown, to dark violet/brown, to almost black. A random sample of Indian Rosewood could reflect any of those realities and be completely useless in helping you identify something from elsewhere on the Indian Rosewood spectrum, let alone pin down any of the other "Dalbergia" family such as Cocobolo or Rio Rosewood. In fact there's an interesting story about when Brazil banned the export of Rio Rosewood, but were subsequently forced to admit that they were actually unable to make a legally solid case that would stand up in a court of law based on a categorical identification of Rio versus any of the other Amazonian Rosewoods, all they could say was that given one hundred samples of Rio they could state the main part of them were probably Rio rather than another Rosewood!

Moving on from books with actual wood samples there's a couple of modern books that you might find relevant, there's "Identifying Wood" by Bruce Hoadley. Which is a superb and more scientifically based analysis, unfortunately it tends to focus on current timbers, so it's not much help in identifying Partridge Wood or separating Cuban Mahogany from Honduran Mahogany. Another great book is "Woods In British Furniture Making 1400-1900" by Adam Bowett.

I've been around cabinet making and the antique restoration trade for forty years, and in all seriousness the best advice I can give you is when in doubt regarding timber identification just take a wild guess! I'm not joking, I've seen eminent dealers talk complete tosh and actually no one cares less. The real skill is patching in a convincing repair, not stating with botanical exactitude precisely what species of timber you've patched onto what.

Good luck!
 

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Thanks for the info Custard. I totally understand what your saying. I do have the book ' Identifying wood' by Bruce Hoadley. Like you say with antique furniture using samples isnt alot of help anyway. But saying that i would love to get this set labelled. Each piece is 130 x 60 mm x 10mm thick. It would probably be that i dont use it to identify so much, but it would look good all set out :D
 
While I have little use for a wood sample set I wouldn't half like one lol.

Which reminds me, must post a picture of the mystery wood I have in the shop.
 
AndyT":109yl6n8 said:
Your samples wouldn't be from Fitchett and Wollacott would they?

Andy, you've got the memory of an elephant!

There's a beautiful wood samples box at the Barnsley Workshops that was made by Edward himself, if I remember correctly it's inlaid with Laburnum/Holly stringing. It was a source of endless fascination to apprentices and visitors alike.

That and some of the comments here have got me thinking, I wonder what a similar sample box might actually sell for?

Once jigged up it wouldn't be hard to batch out say 10 of these in two or three days including a nice box. At those sample dimensions it's just scrap wood and I've plenty of suitable timbers, including woods that are virtually unobtainable today like Cuban Mahogany, Brazilian Mahogany, Burmese Teak, the authentic Lignum, Rio Rosewood, early growth Indian Rosewood, English Elm etc; plus rare timbers like Bog Oak, pure white Holly, figured Walnut, Apple, Mulberry, Satinwood, Tiger Oak, African Blackwood, Ebony, Greenheart, etc.

That could be a nice little job in between bigger commissions and would stop some lovely pieces of scrap going into the woodburner!

Anyone any thoughts on what might constitute the commercially best package or range of samples?
 
I do hope this is what the OP has. I remembered the thread because a friend has a similar F&W box and because I saw something like it sell on eBay for several hundred pounds.
So Custard, I reckon there might be money in it for you if you could find a suitable lad to do the donkey work.
 
AndyT":3nsq45o9 said:
I do hope this is what the OP has. I remembered the thread because a friend has a similar F&W box and because I saw something like it sell on eBay for several hundred pounds.
So Custard, I reckon there might be money in it for you if you could find a suitable lad to do the donkey work.

Hmm? Several hundred you say? "This time next next year Rodney we'll all be millionaires!"

I've got Toby Tools of this parish popping in to my workshop later today to vac veneer some panels for his C&G project...maybe I'll do his veneering and put him to work on sample boxes!
 
i think that there may be a market for it too, providing that it is just not woodworkers interested in these things, famous for not wanting to pay the price that they would demand or actually buy them! After all, we appreciate that fine tiger oak table that you made, but wouldn't buy it. Luckily there is widespread need for a table at all price points. My fear would be that a sample box is not needed or wanted (to be bought) by many.

i imagine that such a box would generate a lot of interest online though and if they could be converted to something else- a keepsake box for example, if they didn't sell then there is perhaps no great risk.
 
you know the thought of assembling a sample box has occurred to me many times, yet never got around to starting one, a great project for an apprentice to add to his whole working life and beyond. I am now retired and have very little of an exotic nature around me these days. I wonder how many different samples I could amass if everyone sent me odds and sods they have lying around, suitably named of course.
 
marcros":2piydetq said:
i think that there may be a market for it too, providing that it is just not woodworkers interested in these things, famous for not wanting to pay the price that they would demand or actually buy them! After all, we appreciate that fine tiger oak table that you made, but wouldn't buy it. Luckily there is widespread need for a table at all price points. My fear would be that a sample box is not needed or wanted (to be bought) by many.

i imagine that such a box would generate a lot of interest online though and if they could be converted to something else- a keepsake box for example, if they didn't sell then there is perhaps no great risk.

Good points Marcros. I've only been full time as a furniture maker for a few years, and I'm still learning all the time about the tiny little things that improve profitability and turn the venture from marginal to viable.

There is no one, silver bullet solution to earning a decent living from making furniture, I think it's about layering lots of small gains on top of each other. I try to avoid a project when I've only got just enough wood to finish but nothing spare to fix problems, and I often use rare and unique timbers as a point of commercial difference, the end result of those two policies is a lot of scrap from really special and unique timbers. Joking aside, small ideas like this, which individually don't amount to much, can collectively make all the difference when aggregated across a year or two.

My order book is pretty full at the moment, but inevitably there'll be gaps and pauses when I'm waiting for a delivery, a machine breaks down, or a client postpones a delivery for a few days, so I think I'll give this one a shot. In all seriousness, a lot of those scraps do end up in the woodburner (in fact I seem to recall sending you a parcel of off-cuts so you've seen the quality of the wood), bottom line is it won't cost me a penny apart from a few hours of labour so what have I got to lose?
 
the parcel was much appreciated. tiger oak makes a very nice pen too!

like you say, limited risk for doing it, so worthwhile trying a batch.
 
Im devastated. Even though the box and timbers are made and packed etc in the same way, my numbers dont tie in with that list. Most are not far away maybe just 1 or 2 numbers etc probably due to them being in alphabetical order but certainly not the same match. Are there any other companies that made sample boxes like this ? Or is it possible they made earlier boxes of these but with slight differences ?
 
S1ider":2xowe44g said:
Im devastated. Even though the box and timbers are made and packed etc in the same way, my numbers dont tie in with that list. Most are not far away maybe just 1 or 2 numbers etc probably due to them being in alphabetical order but certainly not the same match. Are there any other companies that made sample boxes like this ? Or is it possible they made earlier boxes of these but with slight differences ?

I think I might still be able to help...

This is the list from my friend's box. Almost the same as the other list, but not quite - a few differences, but still 66 samples. Does this one match yours?
I don't know if his has the same name on it, but it's possible.

P1010189%20contents%20list%20of%20orig%20box_zpstbllcwio.jpg
 
Thanks for trying Andy but no that doesnt tie in either. Some that i definately know that i have are 7 -Beech 31- Lignum Vitae 46- Quartered Oak (about 1mm smaller in width, may not belong to this set), 52- Padauk
 
S1ider":1issequw said:
Thanks for trying Andy but no that doesnt tie in either. Some that i definately know that i have are 7 -Beech 31- Lignum Vitae 46- Quartered Oak (about 1mm smaller in width, may not belong to this set), 52- Padauk

Well, if you want to post some pictures, I am sure the collective forum brain will have a go. If it is all in alphabetical order, that's a huge clue.
There's a guide to posting pictures here https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/picture-posting-guide-t63716.html - you can either upload small photos to the forum, or post links to an online photo sharing site of your choice. You must have made a few posts before you can use links (so we know you are not just posting spam links) but you should be clear now.
 

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