Why does Norm (or anyone) use a TS tenoning jig?

[Vinn]

Norm's method of doing tenons on the TS has always baffled me.

He cuts the shoulders using a spacer block off the fence - that makes sense.

Then he nibbles away at the short face of the tenon by multiple passes over the blade - Yep, I still get it.

Then he gets a huge jig out that needs quite a bit of setting up to do the long faces of the tenon. I don't get it.

Why doesn't he just use the same set-up and nibble away using multiple passes (the same as the short faces)? Surely the finish left is totally adequate for the strength of the glue joint (you could even argue it's better!)

I've cut tenons mainly on a RAS and I've used the multiple pass technique for all faces. The only use I could see for the jig is if you had a production run to do - then it would probably save time - but for a handful of tenons.....?

Am I missing something?

Vinn

 

[George_N]

I've also used the technique of nibbling the waste away on all the faces of the tenon. The down side for me is that it generates lots of sawdust and needs multiple passes over an unguarded saw blade (table saw in my case), increasing the danger to me and also increasing wear on the saw. M&Ts made this way seem fine though.

 

[MikeW]

No idea why Norm does half what he does :lol:

On larger tenons, you'll sometimes see him use the same tenoning jig for the edge cuts as well. It will provide a smoother surface, but it isn't necessary.

If I had to guess, the edge nibbling is because he just cut the shoulders, often doing the edge shoulders last. That type of tenoning jig sets up relatively quickly. I have one out in the storage shed that our shop used. Cutting them by hand is quick enough for me, so I do it that way.

Take care, Mike

 

[Scrit]

I'm just surprised that Norm hasn't sprung for a single-end tenoner....... Or even a table and tooling for his Delta shaper.

Scrit

 

[Kane]

IIRC The show is part financed as a showcase for the tools - personally I don't care why, I just enjoy the program

 

[NYW Fan Roger]

I have a tenoning jig of the same type Norm uses. I have had it for a number of years and imported it from the USA, before they were available in the UK.
They are vert easy to set up and use. It only takes a couple of minutes.
The main reason for using them is speed. I set up to cut the shoulders on the Radial arm and the pass the piece to the table saw for the vertical cut.
Two passes and the side of the tenon is cut.
The big thing with the jig is it is safe and fast. It is probably one of the best things I have bought from the USA.

 

[Paul.J]

Perhaps old Norm is like me,no good with hand tools :lol:
I thought the idea of the NYW was to make projects by using power tools and jigs such as the TJ.
I've got the Delta TJ same as Norms,and it is a good bit of kit.Easy and quick to use,and with the fine adjuster very accurate.
Came in very useful on several projects so far.
Wouldn't do without it now.Makes life easier for me
Paul.J.

 

[Scrit]

The big thing with the jig is it is safe and fast.

I think we'll have to differ on that one. I tend to agree with the powers that be that they aren't safe (because you can't guard them).

Scrit

 

[Alex]

Hi, I've unfortunately never seen Norm's tv show :? But this is how i do a tenon. Home made jig ,it slides on the table and hooks over the fence to keep it from wondering(main reason for hooking over fence is that my table has no slots. I've got to admit its not the prettiest jig i've made but it does cut near perfect tenons with minium setup.

First i cut the shoulders, with abit of scrap wood clamped behind work piece to reduce splintering.

Next I clamp work vertically, no more need for splintering out protection. I cut both cheeks by Spinning work piece around and cut other cheek off.
[/img]

If I'm doing 'hidden joint' if thats the right term, I move fence again and cut the adjacent cheeks off.

[/img]

Just checked with square,not bad. I tend to make them over sized and pare them down to fit mortice. I have to move fence three times and two adjustments to height of the blade.
I've now got to figure a better way to cut mortice as i have no mortiser.

Sorry to hijack thread abit, just was wondering how others did this task and how my method could be improved.

Alex[/img]

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi NYW Fan Roger

Welcome to the forum.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Philly]

Vinn
You're not missing anything! :lol:
If you have a table saw suitable for using a tenoning jig on, and you have the jig, then it is a great way to cut tenon cheeks. Why Norm doesn't re-adjust the jig to cut the other cheeks sometimes is his reason. Maybe to show you don't need a tenoning jig?
But it does produce a very clean tenon, and has all sorts of uses. And it allows you to safely make certain cuts - a real plus point. As for Scrits big bugbear, safety, I think I would rather use this jig than doing it freehand on the tablesaw, as some US mags show it done.
Hope this helps
Philly

 

[Scrit]

As for Scrits big bugbear, safety, I think I would rather use this jig than doing it freehand on the tablesaw, as some US mags show it done.

Yep, pretty scary some of these US mags. There are, fortunately, many other ways to cut a tenon

Scrit

 

[Anonymous]

Then he nibbles away at the short face of the tenon by multiple passes over the blade - Yep, I still get it.

Then he gets a huge jig out that needs quite a bit of setting up to do the long faces of the tenon. I don't get it.
Vinn

Vinny, you are missing something, the amount of time it takes to 'nibble' the material away from a tenon face using a normal tablesaw blade. norm's tenoning jig (I don't use one) is much faster and can be set up in seconds.

 

[Niki]

I made this tenon jig that rides on the fence with rollers

I was lucky that Scrit was not around at that time....to bash me for that

I'm holding it with both hands (the orange handles) so my hands are "behind the wall" and never come close to the blade....ok, Unguarded blade

niki

 

[Scrit]

I'm holding it with both hands (the orange handles) so my hands are "behind the wall" and never come close to the blade....

Unless you push through? Possible because you have no motion limiter (stop)

Scrit

 

[Niki]

Hi Scrit

I do have stops on both sides. Please have a look here to see all the post
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... highlight=

Regards
niki

 

[Benchwayze]

Since I realised that double No 10 Biscuits have held 3 x 3 framing together on my Coronet Major bench, without racking, I have treated the mortice and tenon as a 'slip-tenon' joint when I need to use it at all.

I make slip-tenon material from marine ply, cut the mortices with an appropriate router cutter all from the same face and then cut off the size of tenon I need. For heavy jobs I have found this stronger, as it gets around the M&T joint's weakest point; the root of the tenon.

When I do cut a tenon in the rail itself, I use the bandsaw, or backsaw. Safest methods I know of.

Happy woodworking folks
John

 

[Vinn]

Since I realised that double No 10 Biscuits have held 3 x 3 framing together on my Coronet Major bench, without racking, I have treated the mortice and tenon as a 'slip-tenon' joint when I need to use it at all.

I once had a biscuit joint fail where I had used double No. 20 biscuits to join two 4 x 2's. I guess I had pushed the technology too far. Using ply as a sort of huge (but square) biscuit sounds good.

When I do cut a tenon in the rail itself, I use the bandsaw, or backsaw. Safest methods I know of.

After he has cut the shoulders, Norm should cut the cheeks on the bandsaw. I used to do everything on a bandsaw (before I had a TS). I'm convinced that the rougher surface would actually help the glue joint (and provide more of an 'interference' fit).

There seems something inherently wrong about running a piece of wood 'end-up' across the TS blade.

Vinn