Which table saw?

[houtslager]

lol ! well you could buy an old STARTRITE TA175 or TA225 iirc both take a stacked or dail dado

HS signing off from amsterdam

 

[Noel]

Blimey...thats cleared things up a bit :shock:
Just one question....Is the arbor you show the average type?
Because if record claim to have a 30mm bore...then the 15.8mm thickness of yours is smaller? :? :?:
Heres me getting confused with terminology again :roll:
So is the record definatly out of the question for a dado

OK Tom, glad to help. My saw is from the US, where 5/8 (15.8mm) is the common arbor size. Overhere 30mm seems to be the popular size. Don't get too hung up on arbor thickness, as I mentioned in the post, it's the lenght that determines dado capability. I reckon nearly every saw on the UK market has short arbors for the usual and often discussed reasons. Therefore you have 2 options (as far as I'm aware of, anyway) - older machine (Wadkin, such as DaveL's) or go up the road and see Philly's mates at Woodford. Yes, if you want to use a dado, forget the Record.
So Tom, you have a decision to make. I really think you should get your so & so over to Woodford, see what your budget can run to on an Xcalibur then make your mind up. But don't get too focused on using a dado, at your age maybe a Record would suit you and perhaps upgrade at a later date.

Cheers

Noel

 

[Chris Knight]

Just to add potential confusion to the arbor diameter discussion- the 30mm dimension is usually obtained via a flanged collar that is mounted on the arbor. The arbor itself can thus be of an arbitrary diameter.

The collar depth is designed to accept something the thickness of a sawblade but not more than that so even if the arbor were longer, you still couldn't mount a dado without modifying something.

 

[Mdotflorida]

Therefore you have 2 options (as far as I'm aware of, anyway) - older machine (Wadkin, such as DaveL's) or go up the road and see Philly's mates at Woodford.
Noel

Noel

Do you think another viable option would be to replace the arbor with a US specified one. ? I have the Jet SS and a friend in the States who could purchase one and send it to me.
Even if this is viable, how difficult would it be to change it ?

Jeff

 

[Noel]

Just to add potential confusion to the arbor diameter discussion- the 30mm dimension is usually obtained via a flanged collar that is mounted on the arbor. The arbor itself can thus be of an arbitrary diameter.

The collar depth is designed to accept something the thickness of a sawblade but not more than that so even if the arbor were longer, you still couldn't mount a dado without modifying something.

Take your point Chris and I daresay on some saws this is the case. Indeed the lip on the arbor flange that you mention sometimes even has 2 faces on it so that the saw blade, with a similar shaped hole locks on the flange. Also flanges with a couple of pins provide a similar secure mounting method.
My advice to Tom only applied to arbors that were designed or EXPERTLY modified to accept a stacked dado. As you may have seen from the picture above the arbor flange has no such lips.

Noel

 

[Noel]

Therefore you have 2 options (as far as I'm aware of, anyway) - older machine (Wadkin, such as DaveL's) or go up the road and see Philly's mates at Woodford.
Noel

Noel

Do you think another viable option would be to replace the arbor with a US specified one. ? I have the Jet SS and a friend in the States who could purchase one and send it to me.
Even if this is viable, how difficult would it be to change it ?

Jeff

Jeff, I'm the last person to ask on such matters, but........
Seriously, my engineering knowledge is zilch, indeed knowledge of anything is rather limited. Anyway, here's a diagram of your saw bits-

And here's a picture of your arbor, sans blade-

And if I'm correct there seems to be, as Chris alluded to, a boss on the arbor flange BTW.
With regard to your question I think it's possible. But a good bit of research will be needed to see exactly what components will be required, such as if the arbor bearings and arbor pulley will need to be replaced. Obviously any bearing work will require a press (most garage workshops etc will have a press). How will any modifications effect your warranty? Are these saws braked? Lots of things to take into consideration but please remember that safety comes first.
I'll see if I can get some pictures of a US S/Saw arbor that may help. I'll also talk to a friend who knows about such things.
I met a guy once who had bought a DeWalt 746 and he replaced the arbor with a US type one whyich was apparently supplied by DW UK. Has had no problems with it.

Noel

 

[Mdotflorida]

Thanks a lot Noel.

I have looked at the parts list of the US version of the saw (found online) and all associated parts (bearings, bolts etc) seem to be exactly the same part numbers as the UK version. The only part number that differs is the arbor itself. Phoned Jet UK but they were understandably non commital on this and could not comment.

As far as I know my saw is not electrically braked. Of course the extra weight of the arbor will probably affect the braking time so that may be an issue.

Absoultely agree, safety first and if there is any hint that doing it would not be safe then it won't happen.

Jeff

 

[Noel]

Jeff,

As you mention, all the part numbers are the same. If it's easy enough to pull out the arbor bracket and pulling and pressing the bearings can be done I'd get your US friend to get the arbor and go for it. And glad you mentioned the safety aspect. It's all very well following the advice of the likes of us but I'm always aware that suggesting modifications to other people's machines can lead to a few problems. TSs are dangerous enough as it is.

Noel

 

[Aragorn]

Or just get one of these :lol:

I can get a 13mm width cut from this blade on a conventional European saw. Mine's the Kity 619.
No chippers, so the electronic brake isn't an issue.
Nice clean grooves, although the bottoms are no completely flat.

This is less exaggerated the wider the groove you cut.

Worth the money?
Not really - buy a spindle moulder instead

 

[Chris Knight]

Aragorn,

What is it?

 

[Philly]

Chris,
Don't you have the Sheppach "dado"-whats it like in your experience (if you don't mind me asking)?
Cheers
Philly

 

[Aragorn]

Chris
This is one of the DeWalt groove cutting blades. Two are available - one cuts grooves 5mm - c.11mm, the other from 10mm to c.19mm.
The blade is in two parts which fit together at 90º to one another. The area where they overlap can be shimmed out to create the different widths. It comes with a set of shims that allows 0.1mm adjustment across the whole range.
Because of the design of the blade, one half's teeth always partly "overlaps" the others (as it rotates). This means no chippers to break out the waste. Also, each half interlocks with the other at the centre, so it rotates as one blade - hence it is safe to use with a brake.

In use, I find it quick, accurate and easy to setup. The quality of the cut is good, especially in grooving (along the grain). It is efficient at removing the waste, so making cuts on the table saw is very quick compared to a router.
All in all, though, for grooving, it offers nothing that can't be done on the router table. It is more versatile for housings, as you have the advantage of the TS size and accuracy to make the cut, such as the sliding carriage.

Let me know if you fancy a couple more photos to make all that clearer!

 

[DaveL]

As requested, a few pictures and thoughts about dado cutters.
I have an oldish Wadkin saw, lots of cast iron, very large 3hp single phase motor. The point of stating that is its not going to move when I press the go button. My old B&Q saw if it was not fixed down had a tendency to jump on startup and move in use, both of these are bad from a safety point of view. I gave the B&Q saw to one of my friends, I found it easier to pick up than just the motor on the Wadkin. I hate to think of the effect of mounting something like a stacked dado cutter on a light weight saw, dado set is much heavy than a standard saw blade. On a machine with a brake there is a major risk of the cutter undoing the arbour nut when the motor is stopped. The arbour must be long enough for the whole of the nut to go on when the stacked dado cutter is fitted.

OK lecture over.

I have an 8" dado set. I decided I would try it out by cutting a rebate. (Rabbits make nice stews or pies but have nothing to do with woodwork. :lol: ) I found I needed to spend some time setting up the saw before I could do the job in hand. I first cut a piece of ply as a sacrificial fence. The fence on the saw has four holes through it so I drilled matching holes in the ply, fitted coach bolts and then found that my shop made knobs where to long to use. OK I made some smaller knobs.
Here is the fence with the ply fitted, note the nice new ash knobs.

Next I made a new insert for the table, I fitted four round head screws in the bottom to allow the height to be adjusted.

I had to put the round holes in as I made it a tight fit in the table and after fitting it the first time I had to reach under the table and knock it out with a long batten. :roll:
Here is the dado cutter on the arbour, its only 8" compared to the normal 10" blade but its made from much thicker steel plate.

I currently do not have a splitter for this saw, the chap I bought it from did not have one for it, the bracket for it is still in place so one of the next things to make is a replacement splitter. As you can see from the first picture my Christmas present replaces the crown guard. 8)

This is the final setup for cutting the rebates.

The edge of the dado is under the edge of the sacrificial fence. This is what I was doing.

Well it took most of an afternoon to cut the rebates, but I now have all the extra bits made and its about the same time to setup the saw compared to the router table. The saw is much quicker for making the cut so if I have more than a few feet of wood to cut it would be the saw every time. The thing that is noticeable, the saw is much quieter than the router.

The stacked dado cutter does make the saw behave a little differently. I have not timed the stopping times for the different blades, maybe if there’s a tuit in the box I will do it some time. :wink:

Tom,

if you really want to use a stacked dado cutter you must buy a saw that is designed for one. Trying to squeeze one in is not a good thing to do.

 

[Noel]

Dave, good job. As you say, next time should only take minutes to set up.
Think you might need to get the ROS out to give the TS top a good going over....
Incidentially, although you have the overhead guard only half way out, if it was fully extended, as designed, do you find it droops, due to the light weight construction and the iffy stick on pads that are supposed to keep the 2 tubes nice and tight?

Good to see the Wadkin and all the bits finally running.

Noel

 

[DaveL]

Noel,

ROS on the table :shock: and take off the patina thats taken 30 years to build up. :lol: The table looks a bit rough but I have cleaned it with 000 steel wool and lubricating wax, its smooth but not shiny, I work in safety glasses not shades. :wink:

The overhead guard is a bit droopy when fully extended. I have a confession to make, I have cut the tubes down. I fitted the pine table extension so that I can use the whole length of the fence rails. I then fitted the stand for the guard. With the full length tubes they stuck out the side and while saw will almost certainly move round in the shop I found having to keep ducking under a very hard steel tube was not a good thing. Out with the hack saw, 15" of the outer, 7" of the inner tube allows me to walk by with out the limbo music. :lol: If I extend it fully I still have over 5' of clearance. Just need that amount of clear space in the shop. :roll:

If I get the into one place and don't move it about I will look at mounting the guard on the ceiling as suggested in the leaflet that came with it.

I am still trying to tame the dust from under the table on the Wadkin. I am on mark 2 which needs reworking, probably will get to 7 or 8 before I am happy with it.

 

[Chris Knight]

Don't you have the Sheppach "dado"-whats it like in your experience (if you don't mind me asking)?

Philly,

Yes I have this thing and Aragorn's description of the Dewalt Groover makes the two things sound identical.

I have hardly used it and not really in earnest yet. I don't recall the slight deepening at the edges of the groove it makes - as in Aragorn's photo but this may just be faulty memory. I'd go and do a quick test except that my saw is being used as a workbench at the moment - I shall try to remember in a week or so by which time it should be clear.

 

[Mdotflorida]

My old B&Q saw if it was not fixed down had a tendency to jump on startup and move in use, both of these are bad from a safety point of view. I gave the B&Q saw to one of my friends,

Good friend was he Dave ? :?

 

[Alf]

My old B&Q saw if it was not fixed down had a tendency to jump on startup and move in use, both of these are bad from a safety point of view. I gave the B&Q saw to one of my friends,

Good friend was he Dave ? :?

ROTFL! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Not any more! :lol: :lol:

 

[DaveL]

My old B&Q saw if it was not fixed down had a tendency to jump on startup and move in use, both of these are bad from a safety point of view. I gave the B&Q saw to one of my friends,

Good friend was he Dave ? :?

ROTFL! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Not any more! :lol: :lol:

OK OK I know how it looks. :roll: But he has an Elu RAS and need something that was more portable for site work. The B&Q saw fits the bill nicely.

 

[Noel]

Dave, must admit I like my table shiny-ish.
Cut my overhead guard too. But only the bit that stuck out to the right of the upright tube. One thing I will replace is the hose that fits from the end of the tube to the basket. Way too stiff and forces the basket to sit at an angle (as can be seen on yours too).

Noel