Which ~6000grit waterstone?

[MrDavidRoberts]

I currently got a 400/1000 diamond stone, does a nice job, however now need something finer around 6000 probably before I attack it with a strop and super fine paste.
Have no idea whatsoever about all the brands for the non-diamond stones, so looking for some feedback.

I currently have my eye on the King KDS 1000/6000 Combination £37.88 from amazon, (that's what one video suggested) , also supposedly it's a better stone than the standard king combi.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/King-1000-Comb ... s=king+kds

Is there anything better for around the same price or a little bit more/less ? Need something that is wide as I sharpen with a guide and my largest plane blade is 6cm wide, something the width of the king kds at 6.6cm would be spot on!

 

[tony_s]

Ebay seller aj_1001 often has some interesting stones on offer, although I've just had a look and there's not much there at the moment. He sometimes has interesting looking 8 x 3" stones that he reckons are approx (iirc) 12000 grit for around the 50 quid mark.

I do use a very fine slate stone myself (altho' I didn't purchase it from the aforementioned seller). It certainly puts a finer polish than my King 6000 which tbh I find a bit of a pain to use

 

[bugbear]

Ebay seller aj_1001 often has some interesting stones on offer, although I've just had a look and there's not much there at the moment. He sometimes has interesting looking 8 x 3" stones that he reckons are approx (iirc) 12000 grit for around the 50 quid mark.

I do use a very fine slate stone myself (altho' I didn't purchase it from the aforementioned seller). It certainly puts a finer polish than my King 6000 which tbh I find a bit of a pain to use

Agreed - I think the slate stone (from Wales, "Dragon" in its name somewhere) might be the cost/benefit point the OP is looking for.

Assuming he takes the advice he's asked for this time. :roll:

BugBear

 

[Phil Pascoe]

We live in hope. :lol:

 

[MrDavidRoberts]

Ebay seller aj_1001 often has some interesting stones on offer, although I've just had a look and there's not much there at the moment. He sometimes has interesting looking 8 x 3" stones that he reckons are approx (iirc) 12000 grit for around the 50 quid mark.

I do use a very fine slate stone myself (altho' I didn't purchase it from the aforementioned seller). It certainly puts a finer polish than my King 6000 which tbh I find a bit of a pain to use

Agreed - I think the slate stone (from Wales, "Dragon" in its name somewhere) might be the cost/benefit point the OP is looking for.

Assuming he takes the advice he's asked for this time. :roll:

BugBear

seems like it comes only in 50mm width from the welsh slate seller?
Can you use a polished slate tile perhaps as well?

 

[tony_s]

He often has these on offer:-

ebay item No: 173006328310

So it might be worth waiting a few days to see if he lists any more (or send him a message)

 

[bugbear]

seems like it comes only in 50mm width from the welsh slate seller?

That's not a problem - stones wider than your blade (or even as wide) are not needed. Otherwise how on earth would coopers sharpen the blades of their enormous jointers.

Either present the blade on a diagonal, or move the blade left/right either during or between strokes.

Can you use a polished slate tile perhaps as well?

The name "slate" covers a very wide range of sedimentary rocks, the sharpening merit of which varies.

BugBear

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Walter Rose in The Village Carpenter specifical mentions it being better to use a stone narrower than your blade. The stone stays flatter.

 

[MrDavidRoberts]

He often has these on offer:-

ebay item No: 173006328310

So it might be worth waiting a few days to see if he lists any more (or send him a message)

Thanks for the Idea! I will pop in to my local tile place first and buy a single slate tile, It might be the same thing,but for close to nothing
I'm fairly sure they had honed slate tiles as well when I bought some tiles last time, after lapping I doubt there would be much of a difference.

 

[beech1948]

Mr Roberts,

You have stones up to 1000 grit. The jump to 6000 grit is too large. You will need an intermediate stone at the very least. An ideal approach would be 1000/2000/4000/6000 and then higher if you can see a need.

Your 1000 or less stones have done the shaping already so all you are doing is the polishing of the edge. As such each incremental stone grit will remove the grain marks of the previous stone until you finish up with 6000 and then strop.

Keep it simple. One stone per grit. Ignore combi stones.

Good luck.

 

[bugbear]

Thanks for the Idea! I will pop in to my local tile place first and buy a single slate tile, It might be the same thing,but for close to nothing

it won't be.

I'm fairly sure they had honed slate tiles as well when I bought some tiles last time, after lapping I doubt there would be much of a difference.

There will be.

You might (but I'm starting to doubt it) learn something from this thread
slate-as-a-sharpening-stone-t88443.html


BugBear (owner of more than one slate hone)

 

[ED65]

You have stones up to 1000 grit. The jump to 6000 grit is too large.

No it really isn't. If you do it right you can strop directly off the 1000, and few would find the results lacking.

Too big a grit jump is largely a red herring in honing. It is a very big deal in sanding, but honing isn't like that at all.

 

[ED65]

I currently got a 400/1000 diamond stone, does a nice job, however now need something finer around 6000 probably before I attack it with a strop and super fine paste.

I suspect you have your heart set on this and won't be swayed but you really don't need a finer stone. It is fun to play around with stones and see firsthand what's what but others have done it before us and we can learn from their experiences.

You can strop directly from a 1000-grit diamond plate and get results most would be happy with I assure you. In fact you can strop from a final honing surfaces much much coarser than this and get an acceptable edge. Generations of craftsmen did before us remember.

 

[MrDavidRoberts]

I currently got a 400/1000 diamond stone, does a nice job, however now need something finer around 6000 probably before I attack it with a strop and super fine paste.

I suspect you have your heart set on this and won't be swayed but you really don't need a finer stone. It is fun to play around with stones and see firsthand what's what but others have done it before us and we can learn from their experiences.

You can strop directly from a 1000-grit diamond plate and get results most would be happy with I assure you. In fact you can strop from a final honing surfaces much much coarser than this and get an acceptable edge. Generations of craftsmen did before us remember.

The thing is, when I started out I used to sharpen the plane blade on a piece of brick freehand, I didn't had anything better.. I thought my plane is a real junk at that time.
Than.. I took the sandpaper route mounted on tile.. I was amazed that I can finally sharpen something and the plane became a bit better for me and I was able to do rough work with it, still thought -meh this plane isn't any good, Than I bought an eclipse Jig - Ever better results...There are tons of people on internet who says you don't need jigs like that... Than I discovered I can take a piece of leather and apply a car polishing compound I had to it and try to further sharpen it...I could finally get some actual shavings... Than Finally I got this 400/1000 diamond stone , and WOW this was revelation to me, combined with the jig I was for the first time actually get an edge that Made me actually Enjoy using the Plane I thought was total junk the first time I got it...

I want to see what I CAN achieve myself and try out the stuff out myself, I have no idea what a Perfectly sharpened/tuned and super expensive plane should even feel like- I will get there one day however!
Until that I will continue to experiment

There are TONS OF bad advice on internet, when there is no actual person to teach you, It kinda sucks so have to figure things out for yourself and sift through all the Junk/unsuitable information around. Surely If you got 25years of carpentry experience you can even take a brick and do it freehand and get great results, for a beginner - No way Hose!

 

[ED65]

I want to see what I CAN achieve myself and try out the stuff out myself, I have no idea what a Perfectly sharpened/tuned and super expensive plane should even feel like- I will get there one day however!

That's fair enough but it seems you're falling into a trap that others have before you which is thinking that a new elusive bit of kit that you don't have yet will suddenly improve results.

Obviously some kit does make all the difference, having something a little finer and more predictable than a brick is a clear advantage for producing a decent edge for example! But here the benefit wouldn't be so clear.

Surely If you got 25years of carpentry experience you can even take a brick and do it freehand and get great results, for a beginner - No way Hose!

Well that's maybe overstating it but yes the principle holds. And that's sort of what I was getting at, if you gain more experience with what you already have I'm pretty sure it will do what you need it to do.

Here's why I'm pretty sure, I recommended a 1000-grit diamond plate followed by stropping in this thread one year ago. And that is what was used to sharpen the plane iron that produced the following shaving:

Just to be clear, this is not the thinnest or finest shaving in the world. But it is more than good enough for the typical weekend woodworker such as ourselves.

 

[bugbear]

Too big a grit jump is largely a red herring in honing. It is a very big deal in sanding, but honing isn't like that at all.

Why is applying an abrasive to metal different in kind to applying an abrasive to wood? I can confirm
from practical experience that when aiming for a surface finish on metal, the same rule (it's fastest and best
when you don't skip grits) that applies to wood applies to metals.

Is honing different, and if so, why?

BugBear

 

[Lons]

Surely If you got 25years of carpentry experience you can even take a brick and do it freehand and get great results

Well that's maybe overstating it

You're being kind and diplomatic ED65 :lol: :lol: Not quite the words I would use concerning the use of a brick combined with "great results" (hammer)

 

[MrDavidRoberts]

Got the first Slate tile sample ( brazilian),
After lapping it, it's very very smooth,tried to sharpen with it and it left a finish comparable to about 2500 grit sandpaper I have(maybe even a bit finer), although it was very very slow cutting.
Still not bad for a free tool. I have on order some more slate ( including Welsh)

 

[ED65]

Too big a grit jump is largely a red herring in honing. It is a very big deal in sanding, but honing isn't like that at all.

Why is applying an abrasive to metal different in kind to applying an abrasive to wood? I can confirm
from practical experience that when aiming for a surface finish on metal, the same rule (it's fastest and best
when you don't skip grits) that applies to wood applies to metals.

Is honing different, and if so, why?

The main thing is it's tackling such a tiny area, and the change in scale makes all the difference because the working times are so short. Or can be, honing style is a bit of a factor hence why I said largely.

Most agree that the key thing in a progression during honing is just like when sanding not to waste time at any given step yes? Well because of the very small surface being worked it can take no noticeable extra time to make a big jump in grit that nobody would use when sanding, manually or using power sanding.

There's commonplace supporting evidence for this in the gaps in grit between the two sides on some combination stones, many skip a grit (at least one!) in a sanding sense yet they seem to work perfectly well as a progression in sharpening stones. To give one example, a Norton India is P150 on one side and P400 on the other. Few would use that progression sanding wood, or metal, I'm sure there would be at least two intermediate grits, but it works in sharpening.

Further support is in a recommendations previously in this thread. Think of the rating of a good slate hone. It's variously estimated at somewhere between the lower single digits and into the tens of thousands. And don't many in a British workshop use it after an India stone? Which makes this very acceptable jump at minimum P400 to P2500, and quite possibly P400 to F2000 which skips 16 grits!!

 

[ED65]

You're being kind and diplomatic ED65 :lol: :lol: Not quite the words I would use concerning the use of a brick combined with "great results" (hammer)

I was striving to be

But to be fair I have actually seen someone demonstrate sharpening a knife on a brick, followed by stropping on cardboard I think it was, and he achieved an edge he could shave with. There's actually more than one demo of this on YouTube if memory serves, but the one I'm thinking of the demonstrator's point is always skill > materials.

Obviously using a brick just isn't a good starting point and shouldn't be recommended, but it's closer to a real-world example we could actually make use of than you'd think. In the Hand Tools forum member D_W has made reference to trying something recently where he went out and bought the cheapest honing stone he could find, I think it was literally one dollar, and using that followed by stropping he got an edge on a chisel that most here couldn't match (hair-poppingly sharp, quite a bit above shaving-sharp).