What's wrong with my planer/thicknesser?? Blown capacitor?

[Wouldchuk]

Hello folks,

Hopefully this is a simple one...

I have an Elektra Beckum HC 260, probably one of the last models made in Germany and coming in the green paint job before Metabo took them over.

I've used it a great deal and never had any electrical problems previously, it doesn't trip the fuse board etc on start-up and has always been reliable. Changing the blades is an all together different issue!! :roll:

At the weekend, I plugged it in for the first time in six months, pressed start on the NVR switch and it fired up with its usual humming whine, only for the plug fuse to blow. I've gone through a bunch of fuses and it does the same everytime.

When I plug her in and switch it on at the socket, there is an audible click in the motor. Then on pressing 'start', it starts to spin the cutter and run the feed-in rollers, but after maybe a couple of seconds, blows the fuse again.

I've replaced the plug for a brand new one, I dismantled the casing and checked that the cutter block and belt were all rotating freely, which they are. I've checked inside the NVR case and there is nothing obviously wrong in there. I've also run my Kity tablesaw off the same socket to check there isnt a problem with the supply side - I think it has to be the actual planer itself.

I wonder whether something like a capacitor or somesuch has gone on the main motor?

Any advice would be gratefully received. Is there anything I can check - I have a multimeter etc, but am short on exactly what I should be looking for. :?

Cheers,

Tim

 

[Myfordman]

Did it always click when you power it up? This does not sound right for a normal motor but so many machines have braking on them now so it could be that.

For a standard motor that starts OK and yet blows fuses, means the centrifugal switch is stuck shut. I would say that it is highly unlikely to be a faulty capacitor.

 

[Wouldchuk]

Thanks for the reply - the capacitor was just a guess seeing as it seems to be an issue created by the starting up of the machine.

The centrifugal switch? Is this something I am able to look for and mend/replace?

Anyone have any other ideas as to what this could be, or who I could contact for further technical advice.

Thanks,

Tim

 

[wallace]

Tim can you switch the motor on without any belts attached

 

[wizard]

do as wallace says and if it runs its the start capacitor

 

[Wouldchuk]

Ah, right ho... I havent actually removed the belt, but did rotate it all by hand to check that there was no obstruction etc.

It turns very easily, with only the weight of the cutter block/feed roller mechanism, so I had assumed that it was providing such a light load it wouldn't be causing the problem, but that is a good and simple thing for me to try. Process of elimination and all that - thanks for the suggestion.

Annoyingly, I am away for a few days so unable to try right away.

I had also just found the following thread:

viewtopic.php?p=510299#p510299

In which there is further reference to the potential for this being the centrifugal switch (which I guess is some sort of weighted switch, turned on at start up to allow startup current, but which is thrown off by momentum to take one of the capacitors out once spinning??)

The C/F switch sounds to be more likely, as surely if the startup capacitor was blown it wouldn't even start to spin as it does (albeit I do only get maybe 2 seconds).

I shall try the belt off option, and then maybe try and see if there is an issue with any braking, and then maybe see if it is possible to identify and access the C/F switch for a clean.... it has been 6 months, possibly more, that it has been stood for.

More to follow - incredibly grateful for any advice.

 

[Wouldchuk]

Well, I finally managed to get another look at the pesky planer. I took the belt off and tried the machine without and exactly the same - span, lights dimmed, plug fuse blew.

So, after a lot of hassle, i've taken the motor and NVR switch out of the machine. The two capacitors, on a visual inspection, look fine - no bulges, burns etc.

There are four rods which run the length of the motor body, secured with nuts. When removed, the end of the motor case underneath the fan comes loose. I took the fan off the shaft and then the end case, but all that gave me was the shaft, a bearing and the main windings. There was nothing visible or accessible that could have been a CF switch.

At the other end, the case won't come off as the pulley is attached to the shaft with a nut which wouldn't budge with me using a ringspaner whilst locking the shaft from moving and I don't want to force it. So that's that - i've exhausted my options, short of just buying new capacitors and swapping them in to see what happens.

i think i've spent enough time on it so I'm taking it in to the motor winding place in town for them to take a look at - here's hoping it is a simple test to see if the capacitors are causing the problems, as dismantling the pulley end is going to be a sod of a job (in other words, expensive....).

If there are any other bright ideas Id be grateful - but otherwise I shall have to take it in later in the week.

Thanks all,

Tim

 

[Eric The Viking]

+1 for the start centrifugal switch.

My Delta DX has that, and the click on spin-down is very obvious. You don't hear it on spin-up usually because of the racket it's making

I'm very surprised that the switch would be on the output shaft end, as it's much harder to make like that (and to service). The Delta one is on the fan end and easy to get at.

Can you post some pics of the motor?

E.

 

[Myfordman]

Not all motors have a centrifugal switch but I've never seen one that has two capacitors and yet no switch in some form or other. There is a need to disconnect one capacitor once the motor is up to speed.
There are some that have an electronic switch but they are high end motors and don't normally feature on price sensitive machinery.

+1 for pictures - these will help. Also can you draw out a circuit of how the two capacitors are connected and also let us know the values of the two caps. maybe a picture of the writing on the caps.

I don't think removing the pulley is important at this stage but have you considered that the nut might have a left hand thread (to help stop it coming undone in service)?

 

[Wouldchuk]

Thanks for that.

On the nut - I did think left hand thread was likely, so tried both, although not with much brute strength....

Definately nothing in the other end that could be a switch, or is accessible.

There is a black 'box of tricks' on the motor casing into which all the wiring goes from the NVR switch and the two capacitors. There are then wires out thrrough the base into the case connecting to the windings. There is a square black plastic 'something' in there, I thought maybe a relay of some sort? Because I was thinking that a CF switch would be on the actual shaft/motor windings somewhere I discoutned this.

Most annoyingly, i am now away from home until next week so once again cannot get anything further done on it, or any pictures etc - thanks for continuing to contribute your thoughts. I shall see if my dad has time to take a few snaps for me, as now its out of the planer its a quick job to undo the wiring case.

 

[Eric The Viking]

The centrifugal switch would be inside the main motor case, behind the fan (probably).

 

[mailee]

Not sure if this helps but my Jet surface planer had a similar problem and it turned out to be the start capacitor. Mine didn't blow any fuses although it is on a 16 amp dedicated supply but it did spin for a second before stopping when the switch was pressed. cheap enough to give it a try first maybe. :wink:

 

[Gareth.Davies]

Hi Wouldchuk
I was given a Elektra Beckum HC 260 with the same problem you had. Did you manage to get it working and if you did what did you have to do.
Many Thanks
Gareth

 

[mikefab]

Hi Gareth,

I recently bought an old HC260 which wasn't working (sold for parts). The motor would run when disconnected from the drive belt just fine. When I connected the belt up and tried to start it the motor would turn very briefly then the fuse would blow. I first replaced the capacitor which didn't help (from reading other people experiences I was sure that this would work - big disappointment!). Then I looked at the original specs and it seems it needs a 16A supply. I put in a dedicated 16a circuit and it had been fine since.

I would add that I am no expert at all on these things but hope that my experience may help...

 

[scholar]

Hi

I am no electrical expert, but it sounds to me like the machine is on the margins of needing a 16A supply - it has worked on a 13A plug, but perhaps the capacitor is deteriorating which means it is drawing more current to get going.

My planer had a faulty capacitor and would cut out before spinning (it has some thermal cut out switch in the control box) - if you gave the cutter block a nudge it would start up and run fine. Perhaps yours is drawing a bit more current now as it is colder on start up.

A new capacitor is only a few pounds (there are lots on eBay), so I would try replacing that first.

Cheers

 

[mikefab]

The previous owner of my P/T told me that it was working fine before he had his garage rewired. I guess it is possible that the new wiring setup meant that there was a bit if a voltage drop compared to before and the current drawn therefore sneaked over 13A.

 

[Gareth.Davies]

Thanks for the advice. My next door neighbour is an electrical wizard so will ask him to have a look. Does anybody know were i can get a manual for this machine, I've looked on line but can not find one to match the serial number.
Thanks Again
Gareth

 

[Giff]

Long shot but if it hasn't been used for a while has the "black box" got a build up of condensation and trips the RCD ? G