what width Marking Knife?

[Essex Barn Workshop]

Hi,
I'm going to treat myself to a Japanese kiridashi marking knife, there are a selection of sizes as shown on this link:

https://www.axminstertools.com/japanese-kiridashi-marking-knife-ax19805
the available widths are 9,12,15 or 18mm. To be honest, I'm not sure what that relates to! Is it the handle width, and if so what do you recommend for marking lines on wood, or is it purely down to personal taste?
Thanks

 

[--Tom--]

When I make them I usually go with 10mm as find it easier. To some extent personal preference but larger ones feel a bit more cumbersome to me.

 

[Cabinetman]

I would imagine it relates to the width of the blade as the handle appears to be tapered back towards the other end. Personally I have been using the old English style with two bits of mahogany which form the handle.
I bought a new set of tools recently for when I was in America and bought the Crown one shown at the bottom of the page (but right handed) good knife, did everything I wanted of it. Ian

 

[Argus]

I had one of those and - speaking personally - I found that the bare-metal grip was not friendly to my palm, so I fitted a wooden handle to it.
Also, in that configuration, it is 'handed', in that it has a flat sided blade on the left , so that when you hold it is correctly it is solely for a right-handed use. It's a contortion to use it the other way round.

There are Japanese versions available that has a Vee shaped cutting section where presentation angle can be reversed, left or right. Again, a good tool, but the blade sectional thickness is rather chunky, resulting in a one-sided bruise distortion on the scribed cut, it also limits the depth of your cut if you need something deeper to chisel into. The comfort aspect is the same as the other one..... it needs a handle to be comfortable, I think.

Whatever the blade shape, the size should suit the work you're doing, but it's not crucial.... about 1/2 inch wide will do most things.

However, for the past 20 odd years I have used an old chip carving knife, sharpened on one side, like the Japanese job, so that the flat side is on the left. It's advantage for me is that its blade is a lot thinner and it can hold a sharp point, giving a more vertical and well-defined cut on the 'good' side and less bruising on the waste. It's disadvantage, if that's the case, is that it needs a more frequent touch up on a stone and strop.... but just a couple of strokes and it's ready again.

The one thing that will happen is that when you get the right knife for your work and your style you'll always reach for the same tool, every time. The process is a bit evolutionary in some ways; you'll probably go through a few versions until you end up with what you like.

good luck.....

 

[Orraloon]

I have never tried the Japanese ones as I kind of prefer a wood handle but as Tom points out its down to what you like best. My take on it is you are mostly using the point so a wide blade is kind of wasted. I do often grab mine to sharpen the pencil and some other little jobs. My current favourite is one I made from an old chisel that was too short to be of much use.
Regards
John

 

[thetyreman]

I use the cheap one that paul sellers uses, haven't found anything that gives me a thinner kerf yet, the blades are also re sharpenable because they are made from carbon steel.

 

[Sideways]

I tried fettling the sharp square (ground) edges of a cheap kiridashi once.
The soft top layer was some of the softest metal I'd ever touched - little better than aluminium.
The hard lamination just blunted my file and laughed !
I'd treat myself to a half decent one that has been neatly finished.
Other than that, I think it's like pens. Everyone has a preference. I like them slim so I'd buy the skinniest kiridashi on offer. Even (if I were a wealthy man) one of those lovely ones forged into a fish shape

or bamboo.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

One advantage of a kiridashi is that it can lay flat, and this is very helpful when scoring against a reference surface where there is little space and the blade needs to be kept flush.

For general use, one does not require two blades, or even a V-blade for either hand. The bevel is wide and can become the “back” for the reverse side.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Peter Sefton]

My go to marking knives are Sheffield made Swan Mortons, this article is a decade old but explains how I fell out of love with my Japanese knife.

https://www.peterseftonfurnitureschool.com/media/1181/swannmortonscalpelarticlepetersefton.pdf
Stay sharp

Cheers

Peter

 

[Woodchip Wilbur]

My go to marking knives are Sheffield made Swan Mortons, this article is a decade old but explains how I fell out of love with my Japanese knife.

https://www.peterseftonfurnitureschool.com/media/1181/swannmortonscalpelarticlepetersefton.pdf
Stay sharp

Cheers

Peter

An ex-medic (of a sort), I have used Swann Mortons for 60 years! My standard go-to is a 3 handle with an 11 blade - but a 10A is certainly a bit less "wobbly" in use.
A great advantage is that, when I leave one lying about (as I do! I need at least four or five about the place if I am ever to find just one...), SWMBO is a bit scared of the things - so always puts them away for me...

(And, no, I'm afraid I don't use sterile blades, just for hitching out a recalcitrant splinter!)

Last use... With a sheet of MDF and a metre rule to trim the edges of A3 print to make up an A1 poster.

 

[Jacob]

Marking knife topic tends to be for knife enthusiasts only - as we see!.
Doesn't help that they are misnamed and aren't much use for marking at all. They are for cutting a line where a precise edge (a.k.a. "knife wall") is really needed, but 90% of the time a pencil line is all you need.
They are also for making an indelible mark where/when that is needed - e.g. by top man taking marks from a rod, for the bench hand then to work from.
Another easier option is a pointed scribe but they have gone out of fashion.
If you try to mark only using a knife, you are in for a very difficult time!
You can't beat the trad knife shape. Doesn't need to be handed either, one knife will do, you can cut precisely from either side by leaning it as necessary. You can also use it to pare out the waste for a V cut.

 

[Peter Sefton]

Jacob, how would you use the Crown knife for fine dovetails-your favourite London pattern. You will be able to mark/scribe the right hand side of a tail if the socket is not too thin but very tricky/impossible to mark the left hand side unless they are large.

One of my students had a Crown knife a few years ago, very poor steel-he used it as a filler knife in the end, hopefully they are using a better steel now.

 

[Jacob]

Jacob, how would you use the Crown knife for fine dovetails-your favourite London pattern. You will be able to mark/scribe the right hand side of a tail if the socket is not too thin but very tricky/impossible to mark the left hand side unless they are large.

One of my students had a Crown knife a few years ago, very poor steel-he used it as a filler knife in the end, hopefully they are using a better steel now.

I don't use a knife for dovetails at all. I use a cheapo craft knife with a chisel end and tap it with a little hammer. Much more precise and reliable than a knife as long as the boards are firmly held. Fits nice and flush against the side of the pin hole with no risk of shaving off a bit. Turn it to reverse the bevel as you go from one side to the other. The blade is much thinner than a DT saw blade - that Crown knife would be too thick for the saw kerf. Steel quality of a marking knife not too important - they don't do much work after all.
This sort of thing:

 

[Ttrees]

To be fair the steel is the softest of tools I've ever came across, which is a bit odd considering they have a rosewood handles.
That point is very delicate.
Great tools for learning how to hone a knife, I noticed the only way to get the point back was to hone it without much skewing , i.e
Keeping the bevel 90 Deg to the length of the hone , the same way you can't skew a chisel and keep 90 with an eclipse honing guide.

Don't think I would have copped that if the steel was harder, and nicer to learn on something inexpensive.

.

 

[peterw3035]

Clearing my garage for my workshop rebuild I found a marking knife/scribe similar to this
Vintage Hand Tools - A Pocket Scriber | eBay
It belonged to my great grandfather who was a carpenter & wheelwright. It has a double bevel and this thread makes me wonder if this was his marking tool of choice? It would be nice to get it back into use.

 

[Jacob]

Clearing my garage for my workshop rebuild I found a marking knife/scribe similar to this
Vintage Hand Tools - A Pocket Scriber | eBay
It belonged to my great grandfather who was a carpenter & wheelwright. It has a double bevel and this thread makes me wonder if this was his marking tool of choice? It would be nice to get it back into use.

Yes they used to be standard, normal, common. Scribe handy for point marks and also for scratching a line