John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
???I've been playing over 20 years, mine stays in its hardcase all the time.![]()
???I've been playing over 20 years, mine stays in its hardcase all the time.![]()
Try gluing a bridge on an acoustic guitar with white pva and see how long it holds out in a car on a sunny day!
So what are you saying? Is Titebond PVA or is it something else?
I think the references to “evostick PVA” are to resin W, and I can understand why you have been confused.Am I looking at the wrong thing?
I have seen everbuild 502 5 litre is for about £30 at Toolstation, £22 change on Amazon while Evostick 5 litre is only £13 at Toolstation. How is that more expensive? Unless I'm looking at the wrong product?
No, I find it ridiculously expensive relative to what I normally use in the UKI don't know if TB is marked up overseas, but it's so unbelievably cheap at the hobby level here that you can buy a short dollar amount and not be able to get through it before it spoils. For example, TB1 is on the shelf two places on the road I live on for $17 a gallon. I'd bet the retailer makes more profit on it than the manufacturer.
And this is where we seem to hit the differences in terminology between the USA and the UK/EU. In this market PVA glues are described with a "D" number, from D1 to D4."Aliphatic resin glue is chemically similar to PVA (white glue), but it is chemically modified to make it stronger and more waterproof. It is typically a buttery yellow color and is sold as "carpenter’s wood glue."........ Like PVA, it's very inexpensive.
Thanks for that, explaining the mine field, mind you it won’t make any difference, I shall stick (lol) with blue resin W, never had any problems, and in relative terms it’s not an expense consideration. IanNo, I find it ridiculously expensive relative to what I normally use in the UK
And this is where we seem to hit the differences in terminology between the USA and the UK/EU. In this market PVA glues are described with a "D" number, from D1 to D4.
D1 PVA is basically "builders PVA", an admixture which goes into coatings or is used to seal dusty concrete. Contact with moisture reverses the bond
D2 PVA is suitable for interior use, such as furniture. Contact with moisture reverses the bond, but more slowly than D1. A widely used example of D2 PVA is Evostik Resin W (green bottle)
D3 PVA is suitable for sheltered exterior use, such as some types of joinery. It is modified so that it cross-links as it dries and because of this is is relatively durable unless you use it in extremely exposed positions. the joints are a lot harder to break. A widely used example of D3 PVA is Evostik Resin W (blue bottle)
D4 PVA is suitable for exposed exterior use. It is modified so that it completely cross links as it dries (the manufacturers refer to this as " hybrid resin technology", so the joints cannot easily be reversed (maybe with acetone, not sure). A widely used example of D4 PVA is Everbuild D4 Wood Adhesive which we've been buying in at around £11.00 per litre bottle as opposed to the £6.50 or so we pay for Everbuild 502 (D3) [Those are the one litre bottle prices - we do get bulk when we can, either 5 ltr or 25 ltr, but availability is decidely flakey at present, and prices vary a lot]
Note that D4 doesn't necessarilly mean PU (polyurethane) glue, as is often mis-stated in the UK for some reason
By your definitions(?) that probably makes D3 and D4 PVA glues (as we call them) aliphatic resins. Either way I was chatting about this with a neighbour this evening who used to be a shop foreman for a furniture manufacturing business (mainly hardwood and veneered boards, medium volume). He said that they used to be able to specify their glues for different jobs, so if they wanted a glue which produced a dark glue line (for walnut) they'd order PVA with an added colouring agent, same if they wanted a straw coloured glue line, etc. the also used to get low viscosity glues (runnier) for their dowel inserter line. The manufacturer just required a minimum batch size of 20 litres (or just over four gallon size plastic bottles). He also mentioned something about being able to retard faster setting glue by adding up to 5% distilled water - a lot of the D3 and D4 PVA I've used in recent years has an open time of 5 to 20 minutes, so speedy working with it is often a must
So my own feeling is that Titebond, at least as far as the UK is concerned is overhyped to a tremendous degree and there are equivalents which would do a goodly percentage of what Titeboond can do - at a lower price
He also mentioned something about being able to retard faster setting glue by adding up to 5% distilled water - a lot of the D3 and D4 PVA I've used in recent years has an open time of 5 to 20 minutes, so speedy working with it is often a must
So my own feeling is that Titebond, at least as far as the UK is concerned is overhyped to a tremendous degree and there are equivalents which would do a goodly percentage of what Titebond can do - at a lower price
So what are you saying? Is Titebond PVA or is it something else?
Remember that prices here are quoted inclusive of our equivalent of in-state sales tax, known as VAT, at 20% - so if you take 20% off the prices quoted it starts to look a bit more reasonable, especially if you take into account shipping and (in the case of Titebond) import dutyIt sounds like distribution is the problem. If there's a material savings below $17 per gallon (or 10% below that for professionals), it would get lost in rounding here.
By the same standard PVA glues should also be food safe unless the manufacturer adds stuff to them (at the end of the day PVA is just modified starch - and always chec k the CoSHH sheets) - how long it lasts is down to storage, I'd say. At this time of year the thing that kills it is frost when it is stored outdoors in sheds and vansI do have some TB 3, as I read it was food safe. In fact I just used some TB3 that I've had for almost 15 years, and it seems to have held. Time will tell.
PU glue is activated by moisture in the air, so adding water to the joint acts as a bit of extra activator. Similarly PU doesn't seem to like being stored at sub-zero temperatures, but that's maybe because the seal on the bottle neck is less effective at low tempoeratures.Also have some Gorilla PU glue, as apparently it works better with wet wood than PVA.
TBH I think it is overhyped and that people haven't got much understanding of "PVA", which is a bit more than just one glue. I find it interesting that I haven't come across anyone running a joinery shop or a shop fitting firm who use Titebonmd exclusivelyI don't knock Titebond, Resin W etc. per se, I just wonder why people pay the premium.
So spill the beans, I use Titebond three because it works and I know no better, ie stick with the devil you know but if there are cheaper alternatives or at least ones as good but with a better open time then name them as I am interested.So my own feeling is that Titebond, at least as far as the UK is concerned is overhyped to a tremendous degree and there are equivalents which would do a goodly percentage of what Titeboond can do - at a lower price
Well I am a contractor (or at least I'm a foreman for one) and the best we can get Everbuild D4 PVA for according to the 1 December price list is about £105.00 for 25 litres - D3 such as Everbuild 502 is under £70 for 5 litres (those prices are exclusive VAT, but inclusive delivery charges). I was quoting single litre prices including VAT because I suspect that most guys on here would be buying.if I were a contractor, I would automatically be able to buy five US gallons of the stuff for 78 bucks less 10% and no tax -at retail.