What smoother?

[Mr Ed]

Thanks for that comprehensive reply Derek. You certainly seem to have done the market research to provide insight into this!

Interesting that with the range of planes you have that infills do not appear in the favourite smoothers. Is this another indication that the infill may not be the guarantee of high performance that it is sometimes perceived to be? Karl Holteys comments re: infills in his notes on the new plane he has on his site also seem to back this up.

Size wise I do quite a bit of smaller work, such as boxes, so this is a consideration. That said I use either a LN 5.5 or a LV LAJ at the moment, so the BUS probably would be small to me.

Anyone any experience of using the veritas block plane with tote and knob fitted as a tiny BU smoother?

If I go the Veritas route I am planning to order direct from Canada. Anyone else done this?

Cheers, Ed

 

[pedder]

Interesting that with the range of planes you have that infills do not appear in the favourite smoothers.

They do, don't they? :wink:

Or even a bevel down plane, such as the Brese. I am constructing a kit with a 60 degree bed ..

OK, It's small

Cheers Pedder O O O

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Ed

I do have a couple of infills. In my opinion, an infill construction does not have any magical properties.

I have a wonderful Spiers smoother that I rebuilt from a shell. It is a great plane and I believe that my reconstruction has not degraded its potential. But it is not better than a standard LN.

One of my best smoothers is a simple infill I built out of a Stanley #3 - BU format and 25 degree bed, used at 60 degree cutting angle. Small enough to make a one-handed smoother.

And don't forget the Brese I mentioned earlier.

THe Veritas block plane as a smoother is actually a very interesting concept. Yes, I do have it and shall be posting a review in due course on my website. It makes a great #3 size plane.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Mr Ed]

So many choices..... :-k

Derek you have too many planes!

Cheers, Ed

 

[PaulO]

One other small thing...at West Dean the LN guy reached for a LN BU plane to tame the 'wood from ****', not a BD LN plane (of which he had plenty :wink on his bench. 'Nuff said - Rob

That was because he had several BU blades ground/honed at different EPs. He didn't have a BD plane (/blade) with a back bevel, so reached for what he had to hand. I was there, but lurking

Also, he is a L-N salesman. Everyone has a jack plane, if he told you / demonstrated that you could do everything with a jack, he would sell less planes.

I think it is all to easy to believe that performance is down to the plane, i.e. S&S vs. L-N vs. Holtey vs. LV. However, even the finest plane will perform like rubbish if the blade isn't sharpened correctly / appropriately for the task.

When can we have a go at the 'wood from ****'? I'd be interested in trying it out with a jack + back bevel. Maybe it could be sent around as a passaround, with the participants posting photos of their results? Danger is that someone starts taking 4 thou shavings and we end up with the "veneer from ****" :lol:

 

[PaulO]

Just discovered that the demonstrator at West Dean (Deneb Puchalski) is Tom L-N's son-in-law.

Do you think he married Tom L-N's daughter for the tools? I might be tempted, though it would sweeten the deal if he also owned a brewery. :wink:

 

[Vann]

If I go the Veritas route I am planning to order direct from Canada. Anyone else done this?

Cheers, Ed

I recently ordered a LAV direct from Lee Valley via internet. The service was really great.
Although the ordering was automated, they had to come back to me with international shipping rates. This was done within 12 hours even though it was over the weekend. And having confirmed the shipping option the order was processed (and billed) over the weekend too!

Shipping however was a killer, ranging from $US96.46 (6-10 business days) to $53.24 (8-12 weeks) - to New Zealand. I opted for the latter (SWMBO considerations) and hope to have the LAJ in plenty of time for Christmas.

I'm pleased they were so prompt, as fluctuating exchange rates drove up the price by $NZ60 just days after the order was processed.

Cheers, Vann.

ps we don't have to pay GST (read VAT) on imports under $NZ500.

 

[Waka]

Ed

I might have a LV BUS & BU Jack available second hand if thats the one you choose, I might even be persauded to part with one of my Norris A5's if thats the road you want to go down?

 

[Mr T]

hi

It is with some trepidation that I write this posting.

Do we really need so many expensive planes! Is it not possible to do good work with well set up and sharpened Record or Stanley planes from the time when they were properly made. Perhaps one should look to technique to cure some problems before reaching for the cheque book. Also, how often does one have to plane the "wood from ****". The general run of work is in more benign timbers which to not require such high standards.

I was discussing this yesterday with Phillip Dobbins http://www.dobbins.co.uk/ who I believe is one of the best makers in the country. He uses older Record and Stanley planes and produces work of the highest quality. I am sure many professional makers do not have large collections of high cost planes, mainly because, being furniture makers, they cannot afford them. Phillip's work can be seen at the current NCFM furniture exhibition mentioned in a thread on the General Woodworking forum.

If your thing is tool collecting OK. But if it's furniture making there may be better things to spend your money on.


Chris

 

[Mr Ed]

Waka

PM sent

Cheers, Ed

 

[Mr Ed]

hi
Do we really need so many expensive planes! Is it not possible to do good work with well set up and sharpened Record or Stanley planes from the time when they were properly made. Perhaps one should look to technique to cure some problems before reaching for the cheque book. Also, how often does one have to plane the "wood from ****". The general run of work is in more benign timbers which to not require such high standards.
Chris

This is a regularly recuring theme.

Yes, you are right you can do great work with cheap tools. David Bailey has taken amazing pictures with a pinhole camera. People do all kinds of things where they achieve amazing results with limited resources.

BUT....I, along with others, do this for a hobby and get pleasure from doing work with beautiful high quality tools. Sure you don't need them but then you don't NEED a hobby at all. I don't think its tool collecting if you use the tools and get pleasure from doing so. I also don't see that there is any elevated level of honour through using cheap tools - no need to be puritanical about it people do this for enjoyment.

I would never look down on someone for having/using limited resources but on the flipside I feel its also wrong to judge those who choose to deploy more resources into their hobby.

Cheers, Ed.

 

[Ironballs]

You should see my mountain bike collection! One does the job much the same as the other but they have their areas of specialism, little nuances and I think all are items of beauty in their own right. Same goes for tools, I now look for reasons to use my BUS as it feels so good to use and the results are superb

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Do we really need so many expensive planes!

Hi Chris

You should indeed be quaking in your boots as you ask this question! A pox be upon you!! :lol:

Of course you need every plane you can muster. It is just not possible to concentrate when you are consumed with concern that you may be tool deficient .... of course, then again, you may also be consumed with obsessional doubt as to whether you made the correct choce out of the 38 smoothers and 15 jointers at your disposal ... :lol:

I rarely use more than one or possibly two smoothers at any one time. I doubt that I would notice the absence of 90% of my planes should I start again. But I have fun with all these planes. It is not a matter of whether one needs them all (of course one does not).

If woodworking were a profession instead of a hobby, I would likely have very few planes, and the ones I had would be users. I would make do. In my real day job (I am a clinical psychologist in private practice specialising in child development) I only purchase what is really useful to do my work well. I avoid all the razzmatazz invitations to the "latest" therapy workshop or seminar this or that, and just get on with the work as I was trained, but modified by my experience and acquired expertise over 30 years.

I don't see a professional woodworker as too different from this. Over the years one adds new skills, some new equipment, but essentially you do what you can to keep down overheads while doing the job as well as you can.

These rules go out the window when it is a hobby.

The only exception to this is that some planes do work better than others when using certain hardwoods. If you stick with straight-grained timber, then much of the time you will get by with a well tuned Stanley handplane and a cabinet scraper.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Mr T]

Hi

I hope it did not appear that I was "judging" those who like to buy expensive tools. I also did not say I was more honourable by using cheap tools. What I was trying to say was that there are other options. It would be sad if makers with limited resources thought they could not do good work because they cannot afford top notch tools.

It would be an interesting thread to discuss where the line is between use and collection. I would suggest that the person with more than two smoothers say is verging on being a collector, regardless of whether he uses them or not.

Please don't take this as dissing tool collectors if you like tools then that's fine, but for those just interested in the making one smoother should be enough.


Chris

 

[woodbloke]

I agree with comments posted by Ed and Derek...it is pleasant to own and use these sorts of tools... again as Mr T has rightly pointed out, you only really need one smoother. Professional cabinetmakers have a completely different agenda to the amateur hobbiest woodworker...when I was working in the trade there was an old boy who only had a crappy Record No4, a 300mm steel rule, a 25mm bevel edged chisel, a tape measure, a Stanley knife and and old Norton oilstone...but he could make any machine in the 'shop dance on it's head :wink: Equally, Alan Peters only ever used two hand planes (apart from specialist planes)...one was a block and the other was a No7 that he used as a 'super-smoother' Mr C has demonstrated time and again that a standard Stanley or Record plane, fitted with a decent blade, can be fettled to be as effective as any top-endy plane that you care to compare it with and those of us who used his No5.5 at Yandles will attest to that :wink: I've even had a go at fettling a bog standard Record No 4:

...with apologies to those who've seen it before. In the end, I think it's part of our hobby to be interested in the tools themselves as desirable objects in their own right, which is the reason that Waka made friends with Konrad last year :lol: It's only when the tool collecting conflicts with the making that I think you cross over the line and become a 'collector' rather than a 'maker'

Ed - if you go for one of Waka's Norris's, make sure you get the one in the box :lol: :lol: - Rob

 

[Waka]

Chris

I understand perfectly what you're saying although a bit bemused with your quote about more than 2 smoothers, I say this because there a various models on the market that are designed to smooth various different woods.

If I look at myself I guess on the one hand you could call me a collector because I have an unused pre-war Norris A5 still in the original box. On the other hand I have some lovely LN and LV planes which are constantly in use.

Now if I were doing this for a living I'm sure I wouldn't have any where near the quantity or quality of tools that I have, but enjoying it as a hobby changes all that.

I have to say that I find this an interesting thread, come on guys lets see who are the collector out there.

 

[woodbloke]

I have to say that I find this an interesting thread, come on guys lets see who are the collector out there.

Where's Martin? :lol: - Rob

 

[mahking51]

Watching and saying B****r All!
Martin
Ps: Rob give me a quick call when you have a moment>

 

[Mr Ed]

I'm interested in these;

http://www.oldtools.free-online.co.uk/woodinfill.htm
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merc ... y_Code=THO

It seems to be a way of getting to an infill, which is brand new with a modern steel blade without the issues (and price) that may come with a good condition old Norris. Anyone any thoughts?

I posted on this plane about a year ago and got a few comments;

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... highlight=

Cheers, Ed.

 

[MikeG.]

I'm with Mr T!

I've never been interested in tools in their own right.......they are simply a means to producing the thing I am interested in. I own 2 planes now, but managed for 20 years with only one........an unbranded jack plane. And I have hand-made furniture for a living in that time, preparing my stock by hand as part of the process.

My manky adjustable square thingy.....is it a bevel gauge?.....keeps just as good a record of an angle as the amazing brass-and-goddness-knows-what-else masterpieces I saw at Dave's Sudbury bash a month or two back, which were selling for over a hundred pounds I seem to remember. Wonderful, but I would be frightened of having it in the workshop in case it got scratched.

I think that what Mr T and I have to remember is that woodworking is a different hobby to different people. Some seem to be obsessive about their tools........some are more concerned with what they produce. Whenever I hear someone talking about a Lie Nielson this or Veritas that, I think of the Chippendale workshop with tools probably less good than mine, yet producing masterpieces that are still sought after centuries later. Each to their own!

Mike