What do you use as a 'gripper', with your planer or jointer

[Jacob]

2 push sticks until you reach the guard. One push stick over, then the other. Smooth and continuous. Just as you would do it with your hands but safer.

You can't be serious can you Jacob? The push stick type in the photograph you posted are suitable for feeding a rip saw, and inappropriate for surfacing. How do you use a bird's mouth push stick effectively on the outfeed side? The answer is you can't because there's little or no friction with which to push the wood. We admonish people we occasionally find using that kind of push stick on a surface planer - they don't do it more than a couple of times before they get the message. Slainte.

I copy the shape in 1/2" ply which is more grippy, and you are right - one is no good - I always use 2 - one pressing in, the other down, both pushing along. Seems to work OK.
Except sometimes hands only, if its really safe - big pieces etc, or hand on the outfeed and push stick pushing on the infeed. Gloves are good for grip (and splinters) but yes if you don't do it carefully they are a risk

Plastic is no good as it's slippery and also can shatter if you nick it. If you nick a wooden one you most likely get a clean cut and can trim it again if necessary. Or you can trim the birdmouth for thinner stuff etc etc or attach a bit of rubber if you need to.

PS come to think - it did take a bit of practice but now it's my normal way and no problem, in fact better than other ways irrespective of the added safety. Practice practice!!

 

[custard]

The push stick type in the photograph you posted are suitable for feeding a rip saw, and inappropriate for surfacing.

I use two birds mouth push sticks for edge jointing small sectioned stock all the time, works just fine.

 

[andersonec]

I would never use gloves near a blade that is spinning around at high speed, i would be scared of getting my hand pulled in.

If your gloves are that close to the cutter block you're doing something majorly wrong anyway ! :shock:

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

Right !!! there is absolutely no chance of getting your hand 'pulled in',,,, it would just be planed shorter....gloves are another of those 'home invented' safety features which, I am sorry to say should never be used with machinery, there is no contact between fingers and wood hence the 'feel' and control has been lost, it is so easy to drop a piece of timber whilst wearing gloves.
Plastic push sticks are ok on a band saw and table saw where the timber is being pushed along against a fence with the downward pressure being imparted by the blade, on a planer when processing the face side, downward pressure only is required and plastic push sticks only apply pressure in one small central area, if your timber has a twist then you may have a problem keeping your timber flat and you can only push from the end of your timber, what if it's 1 or 2 or even 3 meters long or more? how do you control the leading end with a push stick?,,,,,,,guard the blade properly and use your hands, you now have more control, once the end of the timber is past the blade and on the out-feed table both hands are transferred over the guard should then be pushing the timber along the out-feed table and no pressure or hands need to be on the in-feed table side of the blade.

Andy

 

[blackrodd]

I would never use gloves near a blade that is spinning around at high speed, i would be scared of getting my hand pulled in.

If your gloves are that close to the cutter block you're doing something majorly wrong anyway ! :shock:

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

Right !!! there is absolutely no chance of getting your hand 'pulled in',,,, it would just be planed shorter....gloves are another of those 'home invented' safety features which, I am sorry to say should never be used with machinery, there is no contact between fingers and wood hence the 'feel' and control has been lost, it is so easy to drop a piece of timber whilst wearing gloves.
Plastic push sticks are ok on a band saw and table saw where the timber is being pushed along against a fence with the downward pressure being imparted by the blade, on a planer when processing the face side, downward pressure only is required and plastic push sticks only apply pressure in one small central area, if your timber has a twist then you may have a problem keeping your timber flat and you can only push from the end of your timber, what if it's 1 or 2 or even 3 meters long or more? how do you control the leading end with a push stick?,,,,,,,guard the blade properly and use your hands, you now have more control, once the end of the timber is past the blade and on the out-feed table both hands are transferred over the guard should then be pushing the timber along the out-feed table and no pressure or hands need to be on the in-feed table side of the blade.

Andy

+1 Well said, Rodders

 

[Peter Sefton]

It is recommended by HSE that you do use a gripper when planing short timber, I recommend don't plane short timber (less than 400mm), never use gloves on any machines as you can be pulled in. I would not use push sticks on machines with rotating cutter blocks if they could come in contact with the block, this has been known to kick the push stick back into the machinists arm (I mean into)
Sorry if that sounds blunt, machines aren't
Peter

 

[Jacob]

Gloves aren't for safety but can be useful for better grip, especially if you are handling big timbers. And splinters of course. So safety is involved secondarily.

how do you control the leading end with a push stick?

2 push sticks say 300mm long increase your reach by 600mm (less the handles) so control is easier, not more difficult. In any case control is usually pressure about the middle of a piece (not the leading end) plus forwards pressure at the trailing end.

Grippers put your hands too close to the cutters IMHO. If you poke a (wooden) push stick into a cutter it gets trimmed off and you hardly notice. I've done it many times - not on purpose, just when getting very close, which can be handy for precise control.

The main thing is to keep your hands well away so that any snag for whatever reason will only hit the workpiece or the push sticks.

 

[n0legs]

I use these


Since I did this


Really wish I knew about them earlier #-o

 

[carlb40]

I use these


Since I did this


Really wish I knew about them earlier #-o

Oooooh nasty


Those are what i have been using for over 7 years now without a problem. There is a video on youtube showing one of the small push blocks modified for extra grip, with timber repair/ joining plate but i can't find it at the mo.

 

[Andy RV]

Anything but gloves, instead of losing a finger you'll lose your hand.

 

[Jacob]

Anything but gloves, instead of losing a finger you'll lose your hand.

Gloves not for safety but for grip. So if you are trying to plane up a series of long heavy pieces, say 150x75 then gloves really help, and add to safety indirectly as you have more control (and fewer splinters in your hands).

Re Peter's comment about push sticks being thrown back and causing injury - I don't think this could happen with the standard birdsmouth pattern (above), if made with ply or softwood, as the handle end is wide, rounded and blunt, and in the event of a snatch the working end just gets ripped off.
I guess it could be a problem if your push stick was small section say 18mm square and with sharp corners at the handle end.

I'm beginning to think that the standard birds mouth shape (like the plastic one above) is actually well thought out - it's just the plastic which is unadvisable.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

I must say Jacob that quite often I have a lot of sympathy with your traditional methods of doing things. Save the money on some expensive gizmo being the usual battle cry, that often resonates with my Yorkshire post war thrift gene. But on this occasion I cant help but think that a push stick is counter intuitive on a planing machine.

I've used those fleshy pads for years and they work really well because they meet 3 things you need when planning: The need for downward pressure, the need for purchase and to keep your hands clear of the knives.

Personally ,what method people use in a non industrial setting is obviously their choice and they must accept any associated risks or consequences. But purely objectively, there isn't a physicist on the planet that could persuade me that a birds mouth design push stick can exert the appropriate downward forces on the outfeed side of the beds.

So I'll be sticking with my push pads for thinner stock and just hands for larger heavier stuff. Those push pads are great for router table work too by the way, they remove the need for a feather board on many occasions (oweing to the excellent downward or fenceward pressure they exert).

Again though, each to their own...how boring would the world be if only one way existed!!

 

[Phil Sewell]

Couldn't agree more with Bob. Push sticks on a table saw great, on a planer, ridiculous idea.

When I was at college in California they were big on using pressure board things on the planer but the guard was pushed away as you passed the timber over the blade. Unless you don't use the guard to cover the blade where the timber is passing then I can't see how you can use that type of aid on our machines.

 

[Jacob]

... I cant help but think that a push stick is counter intuitive on a planing machine....

The above is a tautology - "I can't help but think" means much the same as "is counter intuitive". Just to be pedantic!

It works (in spite of being counter intuitive), so I'll carry on using them. Not for everything of course - common sense rules and the only absolute rule is that you should keep your hands well away from cutters, and also avoid being in a position where a trip or snag could send you towards the cutters or saw blades.

 

[blackrodd]

I use these


Since I did this


Really wish I knew about them earlier #-o

n0legs,
Sorry to see you're finger tips looking like that, and you're left hand, too!
You were either very lucky or have pretty good reactions, or possibly both.
Would you mind telling what happened, you may teach me, and others, something about safety.
If you would rather not, that's not a problem.
Regards Rodders

 

[Sgian Dubh]

I must confess that in my first contribution to this topic I was thinking of the kind of pushblock similar to the one at the top of the image in n0legs' post; home made ones often have a hook at the rear to engage with the board being surfaced. I wasn't thinking of the short type lower down, which can be used with the bridge guard in place, but I'm not convinced that their use would make surfacing any more convenient or safer than using the hands. The long type requires the bridge guard be set to expose the blades and I suspect in this country they're intended for use with short boards, in much the same way as the home made ones with a rear hook seen sometimes. I remember seeing these pushblocks on sale when I lived in the US, where bridge guards aren't part of a surface planer, or jointer as they're known there. Their machines use a kidney shaped guard that rotates out of the way as the wood is pushed across the tables, so I can see the attraction of these blocks to keep your hands a bit further from the rotating cutters, but can't see it where there's a bridge guard to prevent such contact, and they're something else to pick up and fiddle with as you're working your way through maybe 5 or 10 cubic feet of wood of different sizes.

I truly don't get the supposed usefulness of Jacob's bird's mouth type pushsticks made out of plywood, especially if surfacing long and/or wide boards, say 6' or 8' long and 6" or 9" wide. It seems bizarre to me and rather counters the operational method implied by the full name by which these machines are traditionally known, i.e., the 'overhand surface planer', which does seem to suggest you should feed the wood 'hand-over-hand'. Slainte.

 

[Peter Sefton]

We are the importer for these Gripper Blocks http://www.microjig.com/products/grr-ri ... ndex.shtml and boy they do grip, but they are not to be used as the US videos show. I recommend they should be used within the HSE guidelines as an aid to safe wood machining not instead of guards :!: They do have gravity Heel hooks that drop when required to help push your workpiece. My advice stays the same whenever possible do not plane timber less than 400mm long and use the bridge guard set as close as possible to the workpiece to avoid contact with the cutter block. I do not like to exert pressure directly over the cutter block.
I have ten reasons for this advice and I am planning on keeping them :!:
Cheers Peter

 

[Jacob]

......
I truly don't get the supposed usefulness of Jacob's bird's mouth type pushsticks made out of plywood, especially if surfacing long and/or wide boards, say 6' or 8' long and 6" or 9" wide. It seems bizarre to me and rather counters the operational method implied by the full name by which these machines are traditionally known, i.e., the 'overhand surface planer', which does seem to suggest you should feed the wood 'hand-over-hand'. Slainte.

It's horses for courses. Yes big timbers would be difficult with push sticks alone. But "furniture" sized components are easy. Using the fence as well of course.
I don't like plastic grippers or push sticks. They can shatter if they get nipped, or be pushed away quite hard. Wood is better - it just gets neatly trimmed (or roughly cropped!) and doesn't throw out shrapnel.
No money to be made out of wooden push sticks I guess (or grippers). Everybody can make their own so you won't see them up for sale. In fact you have to make your own as you need several and they get bashed about and shortened. Softwood or cheap ply is best as it has least resistance to being nipped with less impact at the handle end.

On the other hand - matching sets - beech - bubinga handles - packs of replacement components like dominoes - systainers - loadsamoney!!!
Monetising by accessorising. Is that grammatical? You know what I mean!

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

LOL...you know what they say Jacob....scratch the surface of a cynic and you'll find an idealist underneath

 

[Peter Sefton]

You are right Jacob home made push sticks are a must and should be used for most but not all machining processes. All students that come on my Wood machining or long course make one usually on the first day. Its a project that students undertake to gain confidence on the machines, find out for themselves the difference between wide and narrow bandsaw blades for cutting the tight curves, grain direction when cleaning up around the curves and the outcome is every one goes away with at least one push stick and knows how to use it:!:
Cheers Peter

 

[n0legs]

n0legs,
Sorry to see you're finger tips looking like that, and you're left hand, too!
You were either very lucky or have pretty good reactions, or possibly both.
Would you mind telling what happened, you may teach me, and others, something about safety.
If you would rather not, that's not a problem.
Regards Rodders

Yea no problem I'll tell you what happened.
I was trying to plane/joint a wide board, about 2 foot long, that had quite a nasty twist to it and I was trying to get it as flat as possible.
My planer is a bench top model so was set up on a workmate, I get a good view of what's going on with it this way.
I was trying to push down with my left hand whilst pushing down and forwards with my right.
Basically as I started to push forward my left hand slid right off the end of the board and into the blades.
I've thought and replayed it many times, when I was healing up I even tried to do it again ( with the machine off ). I couldn't repeat it.

My assumption of what the cause was goes like this :-
Whilst trying too hard to get a flat board I was using brute force over skill and technique.
The side of the board I was pushing on was very very smooth, I know my hands were not wet but they certainly were dusty and this possibly created some kind of lubrication and caused the slip.
I massively over estimated my ability with the planer, only had it for about 3-4 weeks and this was the first proper project with it.

As far as quick reactions go I suppose I'm pretty good but on this occasion it was pure luck and only luck that I didn't injure myself even more.
The accident was the reason for joining the forum. I've worked with my hands all my life and I would say I'm more than competent with hand tools, thanks to my cabinet maker grandfather, but I needed to learn and seek out some advice on how to use the machines properly.
I will be the first to admit I had a silly accident but I lived to tell the tale , :lol: