Veritas Mark II Honing Guide

[Alf]

I have only myself to blame. Although I do wonder what folks think about the hand tool 'goddess' bit if they don't know... :-k :lol:

Incidentally, I gather from a thread on Woodnet that Veritas are playing about with another honing guide, aimed at chisels. I know nothing about it but just fyi.

 

[wizer]

I have a small issue with my MKII which means the blade is a bit 'pissed' (technical term) when held in the jig. It means that the blade become ever so slightly out of square. No bigger for most uses. I only recently noticed (4yrs after I bought it) so I just have to live with it.

It's a really quite amazing piece of engineering if you think about it. Whoever designed it was a bit of a genius IMHO

 

[jimi43]

I have only myself to blame. Although I do wonder what folks think about the hand tool 'goddess' bit if they don't know... :-k :lol:

Incidentally, I gather from a thread on Woodnet that Veritas are playing about with another honing guide, aimed at chisels. I know nothing about it but just fyi.

Do you know...I never noticed that bit until now!

I was wondering about chisels...the clamping part is a little lacking when one uses a thin chisel in it. I just take it carefully then but obviously there is less stablity and more chance for movement within the clamp.

If I were modifying that element I would have a follower plate which would sit in the clamping mechanism to support the majority of the chisel before the edge. I am interested to see how they solve that "problem".

Jim

 

[Vann]

Incidentally, I gather from a thread on Woodnet that Veritas are playing about with another honing guide, aimed at chisels.

Great, I'm forever having narrow or bevelled blade shift in the current MkII set-up.

I'd like to see a side clamping bracket, based on the Ellipse, that bolts to the existing MkII roller assembly. That way we wouldn't have to start from scratch with a completely new jig, but could use the existing registration jig, skew jig, and cambered roller ( :shock: no, not for chisels). I know businesses would prefer to sell a whole new kit, but as an add on to an existing kit they'd probably sell more anyway.

My tuppence worth...

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Harbo]

That's a problem with the two screw clamping - the original Mk 1? had a single central clamp?

I'm not wishing to start the "honing guide wars" again but this is where the Kell guides score as they clamp at the edges or on the MkIII using wedges.

I have both types and an Eclipse and they all have their different advantages - I use the one that is best for the particular task?

Rod

 

[woodbloke]

You all need to buy Kell III's :lol: - Rob...ducking, diving and already moving

 

[Alf]

And how would you camber easily, Rob? No, there's no such thing as the perfect honing guide. Even the Mk1 hands (left and right) aren't always the solution (albeit much more often than not )

 

[bugbear]

That's a problem with the two screw clamping - the original Mk 1? had a single central clamp?

And legendarily had issues with the tool moving!

BugBear (who remembers all the complaints in the months after it launched)

 

[woodbloke]

And how would you camber easily, Rob? No, there's no such thing as the perfect honing guide. Even the Mk1 hands (left and right) aren't always the solution (albeit much more often than not )

Doable, but a bit of a faff to be honest (but not difficult either to get a precise camber using cartridge paper to offset one side of the roller) so I tend not to camber these days but just knock off the blade corners...seems to work. Without raking over old ground and the probability of more abuse coming my way :lol: you are of course, right. There's no such thing as the perfect hg, but the K111 works for me and does everything I need a hg to do in one package.
If I read the thread correctly, somewhere I recollect that there's a duty rumor that V are dabbling with another hg to sort out chisels? So now there's the Veritas MkII+cambered roller thingie+short blade attachment dooberie+the widget to do skewed blades(?)...and now the new hg for chisels, whereas the KIII will do all of that lot in one guide.
If there is going to be another Veritas guide, it'll be one more for PaulC's collection :lol: :lol: - Rob

 

[mr grimsdale]

You have to have a good camber on your typical plane blade or it is useless, unless you plane narrow board edges only. Square corners or even slightly knocked off corners will leave tramlines on a board face.
But a bigger problem with a straight edge is that, on an already flat board, it will only cut with the whole width of the blade in the work, and can be difficult to move at all.
It follows that a honing jig which won't do a camber easily, is pointless (for planes at least).

Actually a HJ which doesn't have handles or other convenient way of holding or exerting pressure is also pretty stupid IMHO. They all seem to have missed this simple point.
I suppose first generation planes probably didn't have handles either. I wonder how long it took them to come up with the idea? :lol:

 

[Alf]

And how many bits and pieces did you have to make to use the KIII before you could even hone one standard plane iron, Rob...? :wink:

I'm not defending the Veritas, 'cos I class all honing guides as an occasionally necessary evil and love them not, but the KIII has plenty of drawbacks too, even if you can't see 'em. :wink:

 

[woodbloke]

[-( [-( :-# in response to MrG...it ain't worth it!

Sure Alf, yes, you have to make the bits and pieces to adapt it for each type of blade...but the cost is zero!.. and it only takes a very small amount of time. The point I was attempting to make with the Veritas hg's is one of £sd (you might not remember the 'sd' bit :lol: ) which is starting to rack up if everything is bought - Rob

 

[Alf]

:lol: Good man - was looking down the barrel of a honing guide war and wincing meself. :wink:

 

[dunbarhamlin]

You have to have a good camber on your typical plane blade or it is useless, unless you plane narrow board edges only. Square corners or even slightly knocked off corners will leave tramlines on a board face.

Don't agree with this Mr G. For panel work, with a properly set iron and methodical order of work the next stroke removes the ridge from the last. Even with an unevenly set iron, selecting the appropriate order of stroke will eliminate lines.

For spot smoothing, rounded corners or a slight camber are useful. But since this application is by way of a repair, any lines can be quickly removed with a scraper (they're only going to be a thou or less.)

Camber is good for truing an edge, though again, not necessary - stepped/terraced shavings work well, as do the techniques of lateral weighting (but slow - I just use for tweaking when I'm jointing) or just holding the plane perfectly true.

 

[woodbloke]

Don't agree with this Mr G.

8-[ ...steady Steve :wink: :lol: - Rob

 

[mr grimsdale]

You have to have a good camber on your typical plane blade or it is useless, unless you plane narrow board edges only. Square corners or even slightly knocked off corners will leave tramlines on a board face.

Don't agree with this Mr G. For panel work, with a properly set iron and methodical order of work the next stroke removes the ridge from the last. Even with an unevenly set iron, selecting the appropriate order of stroke will eliminate lines...

Hmm, I can see that you could do that in theory, with a perfectly set up plane and a fairly amenable and shortish length of timber so that each pass would produce a perfectly controlled shaving. But it's never like that for me!
I just had to camber my 4 1/2 as the edge had got straightened out somehow and it was difficult to use. It now easily takes off thin whispers which taper away to nothing either side, which is how I like it.
Do other people manage to take geometrically perfect shavings like Steve's?

 

[Kalimna]

For what it's worth, I like honing guides, and whilst I appreciate the simple (and exquisite) workmanship of the KellII, I much prefer the Veritas MkII.

There are extremely few things in any walk of life, in any passtime or area of work, that are truly black and white. To say that 'X is the only way to do it, and if you do it another way, you are fooling yourself' is both rather insulting of a great many folk, and also showing an opinion for what it is - one tracked and so blinded by tradition that no one else can possibly be correct.

I would love to be able to freehand hone, but even on some nice 6mm plane irons, I have trouble with rocking the bevel. For me honing guides work. I would love to have the good fortune to be blessed with the unparalleled skill of a pair of steady arms, but I don't.

And anyway, I thought that that particular nugget of urban myth about honing guides wearing a stone unevenly had been laid to rest. I have done far more harm to a waterstone with an inadvertent slip of a narrow chisel than I could possibly do with a wide roller that spreads the pressure in a 'rolling' fashion, not a 'grinding' fashion.

Right then, now that I have ignored common sense and the warning signs not to feed the trolls, I shall delve back into my garage full of walnut and sycamore shavings and wonder how on earth I ever manage to get a square edge. Miracles abound in Alloa, is the only answer I can now think of!

Cheers,
Adam

 

[dunbarhamlin]

:lol: Unusually, you are in the majority with this one, Jacob.

It does probably take me as long to set the iron as to refresh it. And I use a fillet of wood to test and a toffee hammer for fine adjustment (well, my brass fretting hammer when it's in reach, otherwise turnscrew, chisel side, etc)

I use the same approach for anything from 7' doors to mandolin necks.

Adam - IIRC Rob found the Kell II most effective used on the pull stroke.
However, if used on the push stroke, it can effectively be used like bicycle training wheels to get the feel of the equilibrium needed for "flat" bevel freehanding.
"Flat" in quotes because, the nice thing is that absolute flat is nice - but not necessary.
(And to preempt Mr G - see his Derbyshire Bevel page)

(Wonder if I'm getting any better at juggling with fire)

Cheers
Steve

 

[mr grimsdale]

I suppose you get into the habit of that sort of high precision approach with music instrument making. Maybe I would too!
I guess I'm after speed with optimum (but not ultimate) perfection for the effort expended.

PS

(Wonder if I'm getting any better at juggling with fire)

No it's me being cautious about any reference to any of my dangerously radical, generally perverted and very weird ideas (about sharpening). :lol: :lol:

 

[dunbarhamlin]

Yep - that makes perfect sense. Can't deny my brother chunters a bit when I'm doing it - but we're good for one another - he says "that'll do" less now, and I say it more
Think one of the main differences between hamateur and professional is that the latter knows when good enough really is good enough.