What are the basic 'dogs' I need for my new bench? Theres alot of choice!!

[Stanleymonkey]

Slightly envious of your workshop space!

Go for it with the dogs and tracksaws and MFT. Yes you can do stuff with traditional handtool skills and equipment, but you are learning and you have kids. What you are buying will let you get things done in those spare hours or two between swimming lessons and birthday parties! Good luck with it

 

[pe2dave]

If the quality is OK, Banggood has some basic dogs.
Anyone tried them?

 

[robgul]

Having see @petermillard with a pair of MFT clamps from Banggood I bought a pair - excellent
https://www.banggood.com/2pcs-Quick...mds=LocalWarehouseAllProduct&cur_warehouse=UK
Note: The UJK rail clips were mentioned up-thread - the spring clips are really designed for the Axminster UJK dogs that are thinner than most dogs - they just have a thin flange to stop them on the bench surface as against a much larger one on other dogs - they will fit but the spring clips are under a lot of strain.

 

[pe2dave]

Note: The UJK rail clips were mentioned up-thread - the spring clips are really designed for the Axminster UJK dogs that are thinner than most dogs - they just have a thin flange to stop them on the bench surface as against a much larger one on other dogs - they will fit but the spring clips are under a lot of strain.

Well worth knowing Rob, thanks.

 

[ScaredyCat]

Now you would have thought that in over 60 years of wood working

Some of use don't have 60 years left to hone our skills. With an MFT and dogs anyone can cut good square stuff and do it fast. Minimal training/practice required.

 

[OldWood]

Some of use don't have 60 years left to hone our skills. With an MFT and dogs anyone can cut good square stuff and do it fast. Minimal training/practice required.

OK - so where to I get such 'minimal training' ? I'm thinking of YouTube or the likes to improve my skills in my late 70's - I will then possibly re-assess my judgement on cutting square stuff.
Rob

 

[marcros]

OK - so where to I get such 'minimal training' ? I'm thinking of YouTube or the likes to improve my skills in my late 70's - I will then possibly re-assess my judgement on cutting square stuff.
Rob

Look at YouTube for either "part dogs" which will give you the basics in about 5 mins or some of Peter Millard's videos which show you the basics plus those being used in practice.

Honestly though, with a mft table, 2 long and 2 short dogs, you could have anybody making square and 45 degree cuts in 10 mins with a track saw of any type. The first 5 mins would be introducing the concept and how the top works, where and how to clamp the rail, etc. Experience helps, because you start to learn what can go wrong and correct it before it does- eg keeping the track against the dogs. There are various gadgets that can also prevent this- clips, rail dogs etc. Not essential but very useful.

Beginners like the mft because it is easy, pros like it because it is quick (and possibly because it is portable).

 

[Doug71]

Marcros meant look for "parf dogs" but probably got autocorrected.

 

[Gazzarose]

I probably should now do an update of my progress of the MFT, bench dogs and portable bench...... Only I can't. I ordered everything but then got got tied up hacking off the last of the black mortar in the second bedroom (what a glorious job that is!) and haven't spent any time in the garage. I'm off over Xmas and new year though so hoping to make a start then.

The CNC MFT top looks spot on though and the bench dogs wouldn't be out of place on a mantelpiece so looking forward to making a start.

 

[OldWood]

Look at YouTube for either "part dogs" which will give you the basics in about 5 mins or some of Peter Millard's videos which show you the basics plus those being used in practice.

Honestly though, with a mft table, 2 long and 2 short dogs, you could have anybody making square and 45 degree cuts in 10 mins with a track saw of any type. The first 5 mins would be introducing the concept and how the top works, where and how to clamp the rail, etc. Experience helps, because you start to learn what can go wrong and correct it before it does- eg keeping the track against the dogs. There are various gadgets that can also prevent this- clips, rail dogs etc. Not essential but very useful.

Beginners like the mft because it is easy, pros like it because it is quick (and possibly because it is portable).

Thanks Marcros. I have made mention of my brother before as a professional cabinet maker and see what his take on this is as I've never seen any thing of this ilk in his workshop.

 

[Napolibill]

One of the CNC tops, 2 tall dogs and 2 short dogs is a great starting point, it will do all you need and you can build on it from there.

https://www.cncdesign.co.uk/replacement-perforated-festool-type-mft3lp-top.html
I managed for years without any kind of bench dogs set up, I didn't know I needed it as it didn't exist!

Fast forward to present day and I could not imagine life without my track saw and bench dogs, the speed and accuracy you can achieve with such a simple set up is something that you could only dream of 15 years ago.

A DIYer in their garage can now spend about £200 on a saw, MDF top and dogs and get the same results as a professional panel saw costing a few thousand pounds that wouldn't even fit in said garage.

Just checked out the CNC top from CNC Designs. Good price for the top but they wanted £45.83 plus VAT for delivery to IV36!!

 

[pe2dave]

I agree, pricey. But. It arrives very well protected, highly unlikely to be damaged and.. they do weigh a fair bit.
A bit 'ouch',but worth it? I have two and I'm very happy with them.

 

[Nelsun]

Just checked out the CNC top from CNC Designs. Good price for the top but they wanted £45.83 plus VAT for delivery to IV36!!

I feel your pain regarding delivery... and I'm a "touch" further north than even your good self. This was, in part, why I plumped for a Parf Guide MKII and it's more than paid for itself already, the accuracy is shockingly good (better than I ever got with compercial router jigs) and the flexibility allows you to put holes here, there and everywhere.

 

[billw]

What's the best bit (plunge bit, drill bit, whatever) to put the correct sized holes into a worktop? I'll be using the 20mm accessories rather than 3/4" ones.

 

[Jacob]

The basic 'dog' on a trad bench is usually just one planing stop, to the left of the vice, near the end. Something like a 30mm square piece of hardwood which you can raise by hammering from below. This gets used a lot. When it's looking a bit battered you just trim a bit off with a plane, so it's handy to start with a long one. After that you just drill or cut a hole as and when you feel the need, in the top, or the apron, for tapered pegs, or a hold down. You don't need much. If in a hurry you just bang in a screw, use g clamps, etc. etc
PS I'd avoid metal stops/dogs like the plague - sooner or later you'll ding a blade. Some classic dogs on this bench here Antique Brutalist Solid Beech Workbench just tapered pegs knocked into holes made as and when required. If too long cut a bit off, if too short make a longer one.

 

[pe2dave]

Caution. @petermillard found his 20mm bit was over sized for MFT work.
Suggest quality needed rather than cost.
Peter, where did you buy please?

 

[petermillard]

Caution. @petermillard found his 20mm bit was over sized for MFT work.
Suggest quality needed rather than cost.
Peter, where did you buy please?

I bought the Festool 491072 “20mm” bit; it’s what Festool sells for making MFT holes, and is renowned for making a ~20.16mm hole or thereabouts. Original MFT tops are actually that size - they were made to take clamps, not dogs.

But the world caught up, and moved on; (relatively) affordable CNC machines meant that the holes could easily be 20mm, or 20.02 or 19.96. So 20mm for the holes and 19.96 or so for the dogs became the new norm, and Festool stayed where they were - to this day they don’t make bench dogs for the MFT.

I’ll be doing a round up of router bits for MFT tops in the New Year as the perfect 20mm hole seems elusive!

HTH P

 

[Spectric]

The Parf system seems to make nice holes and I like the ones from bench dog that you can screw down from the rear, makes them nice and firm. Any chance of the router bit roundup sooner?

 

[petermillard]

The Parf system seems to make nice holes and I like the ones from bench dog that you can screw down from the rear, makes them nice and firm. Any chance of the router bit roundup sooner?

I’ve never used the Parf Guide system, but it’s certainly the only drill-bases system around, afaik. And no, the router bit roundup will come when it’s ready - I’m still at the ‘gathering’ stage at the moment, many bits to buy, in many shank sizes!

 

[pe2dave]

On a pillar drill, any movement at all messes the accuracy. Makes for a sloppy fit.
I can't see how a hand held power drill can make a really tight fit?
20mm router bit? Are they available?