Wave kitchen

[Mr T]

Hi

I thought some of you may be interested in a kitchen job we are working on at present. Made in ripple maple with a raised oak wave motif, the work tops are maple and walnut with walnut plinths an details.

The carcases are oak veneered mdf dominoed and screwed. I know of another maker who doesn't domino or biscuit his carcases, just screwing them, what do others do?

There are about 48 doors,drawer fronts and end panels, all veneered in maple and oak. I shot the veneers on the spindle moulder, a new method for me, I was impressed with the results. The veneer pack was sandwiched between boards on the sliding table of my saw spindle, clamped and weighed down with large weights, then run against a straight cutter. Even some very brittle oak had a very smooth edge.

I'm using a method popularised by Robert Ingham for gluing the veneer joints. I've used this a lot for jointing 1.5mm veneers but not so much on standard veneers. Butt the veneer edges then slightly stretch masking tape across the joint, about 200mm apart, finally run a piece down the joint. Turn the sheet over and open the joints to apply a bead of glue using a nozzle cut to a birds mouth, the tape on the other side acts as a hinge for this. Clean off any squeeze out then run a tape down the joint ensuring that the jointed surfaces are level. After the glue has dried the tape should peel off easily. I find this a lot easier than using traditional veneer tape.

There are a number of challenges still to come on this project. I will report on how we dealt with them in due course

 

[woodbloke]

That's exactly how I join my veneers...works a treat. I use a combination of masking tape to pull the leaves together and traditional veneer tape - Rob

 

[Eric The Viking]

Cor, that looks nice! Looking forward to the next instalment.

I'm intrigued: you don't have the wave motif on the doors below the hob. Was that a customer choice, and if so, was there a particular reason?

Also, are you planning some sort of inlay between the two veneers or just a butt joint?

 

[Orcamesh]

Impressive project Mr T. Definitely interested in the progress of any homemade kitchens as this will be a future project for me! I have only minor experience with veneer so cant help with this but I was wondering too how people tend to make the carcasses for their kitchens. I have heard that people buy the flat pack carcasses from certain suppliers and then just add their own solid timber doors, but I prefer to make my own carcasses, the only issue is storage during the build. I was going to use ready veneered MDF and make my own solid timber frames into which these slot for all the side carcass work. Same for doors. Internal walls can be just veneered MDF sheets with solid lippings.

Anyway, will be following with interest...

cheers
HM

 

[Mr T]

Hi Eric

The customer decided they did not want the wave to extend round the sink area, a mistake in my view. The oak wave motif will be applied over the maple veneer on the doors. To ensure stability we will be making a three ply from oak venee then cutting the shape and applying it to the doors. This is why the customer does not want the wave near the sink, she is concerned it will collect dirt, however I would have thought this would have been no worse than on a frame and panel door.

We chose this method because we wanted the relieved effect of the raised oak wave. The main problem will be applying the wave without too much glue smearing over the maple.

Hawk moth, you could cut out and joint the cabinets but not assemble tham until the rest of the work has been done. If you are good at sketchup you should be able to take all measurements from a detailed drawing, make the doors and frames from the measurements and only put things together towards the end of the job.

I say this confidently but it's my collegue who did the sketchup drawings of this kitchen!!

Chris

 

[Orcamesh]

Hi Chris

Yep, agreed, good idea. I guess it is just a question of being very organised. I do use Sketchup extensively so wont have problems there, I am currently drawing plans for a possible wardrobe for our bedroom, as SWMBO has requested that this be the next big job after I finish off a few smaller jobs.

Thanks for the tips and I will be interested to see how your design materialises.

cheers
HM/Steve

Hi Eric

The customer decided they did not want the wave to extend round the sink area, a mistake in my view. The oak wave motif will be applied over the maple veneer on the doors. To ensure stability we will be making a three ply from oak venee then cutting the shape and applying it to the doors. This is why the customer does not want the wave near the sink, she is concerned it will collect dirt, however I would have thought this would have been no worse than on a frame and panel door.

We chose this method because we wanted the relieved effect of the raised oak wave. The main problem will be applying the wave without too much glue smearing over the maple.

Hawk moth, you could cut out and joint the cabinets but not assemble tham until the rest of the work has been done. If you are good at sketchup you should be able to take all measurements from a detailed drawing, make the doors and frames from the measurements and only put things together towards the end of the job.

I say this confidently but it's my collegue who did the sketchup drawings of this kitchen!!

Chris

 

[phillyc]

surely it's quicker and more cost effective just to by the MDF Veneered sheets in and cut everything to size on the dimension saw?

Phil

 

[jasonB]

surely it's quicker and more cost effective just to by the MDF Veneered sheets in and cut everything to size on the dimension saw?

Phil

Can't see how you would do it with pre veneered MDF, One you cant get it 1.5-3.0mm thick (not sure whats thickness isactually being used in the 3 ply construction. and what would you do with teh bare MDF edges? And how do you cut curves on a dimension saw?

Jason

 

[phillyc]

surely it's quicker and more cost effective just to by the MDF Veneered sheets in and cut everything to size on the dimension saw?

Phil

Can't see how you would do it with pre veneered MDF, One you cant get it 1.5-3.0mm thick (not sure whats thickness isactually being used in the 3 ply construction. and what would you do with teh bare MDF edges? And how do you cut curves on a dimension saw?

Jason

I’m not wanting to have made it sound like I want to cause an augment was just floating an idea around that’s all....I made MDF beech veneered fitted wardrobes and cabinets recently and the veneer on the 18mm and 12mm MDF was 1.5mm thick.

Also for curves I didn’t mention cutting the curves on the saw that would be impossible I was mealy talking about cutting it all to width size etc.

 

[jasonB]

Well you would still have to pay to get the boards custom veneered in ripple maple so may as well get paid to do it yourself.

Also you can get a match for teh curved corner posts and concave corner unit door if you veneer it all yourself. And can get consecutive veneers and do whatever grain matching you want.

Yes you probably could but two curved boards of pre veneered up together but would have a problem with the overlayed look.

Jason

 

[BradNaylor]

Looks a fascinating job Chris - I'm looking forward to seeing the results.

It was only on a second reading that I realised that you were planting the oak veneer wave on top of the maple - I assumed at first that the two veneers would simply(!) be joined giving a flat finish.

Do you not have any worries about the oak wave starting to come way at the edge in use?

Brad

 

[Mr T]

Hi

The reason we are veneering ourselves is that we want to have the grain continuous round the kitchen.

No Brad I did not have any worries about the wave detaching in use, that is until you mentioned it!!

We have now completed all the maple veneering of the doors, panels and corner posts.

A bit about the posts. These were machined on the spindle moulder in three cuts with a 98mm rad cutter. First cut in the middle, second at the top then turn the piece and take another at the top with a board clamped tothe table to stop it dropping away from the fence.

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After machining the posts were veneered on a jig. The post was put in the jig with the veneer taped over it then 1.5mm birch ply was taped over to give even pressure.

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The cabinets are also completed. We try to complete as much as possible in the workshop so that the fitting is as simple as possible. We are trying the idea of machining for a vertical spline on the cabinet sides so that they will align more easily when fitting.

Starting the wave this week!

Chris

 

[tsb]

Any chance of an update of this kitchen?

 

[houtslager]

and when you make the update, anychance of making the pics a tad smaller please, other wise looking great.

k

 

[stoatyboy]

I like that a considerably large amount

Could you make the doors solid so the wave went all the way through?

sorry if that's a numpty question!

 

[Mr T]

I have been thinking of posting an update on this as we can now see the end in sight! I have reduced the size of the images in photobucket so I hope that makes the post easier to read. I don't find this format very easy to go into detail ( I have just lost a hours worth of posting). So if you would like full details on the methods described please see recent blogs http://www.christribe.co.uk/blog/

The wave has now been applied to the doors and drawer fronts and the wall units and lower drawer fronts on one side of the kitchen trial assembled

We had hoped to use cnc produced templates to cut the wave, but were unable to get sketchup pro to talk to the local bar fitters cnc machine. Instead I used a router ad trammel to cut the tmplates. The 1.4mm oak veneer for the wave was jointed and the postion of the doors marked. The wave was then cut using a collar guided router and te template.

Applying the wave required careful work as any discontinuity between doors would have been very obvious. The postion of the wave was established the door sides cut back where the wave was to be applied and a 2mm oak edging applied. The wave was then appplied to front and back, so the top of the door appears to be solid oak ( to actually do it in solid would have involved serious movement problems Stoatyboy)

The wave was also applied to the rounded corner posts and side panels

Titebond 3 was the adhesive used.


The kitchen has 19 drawers in all. My collegue, Daid Wilson, has been working on these. He uses a Woodrat to cut the pins but cuts the dovetails by "hand". It is not possible to get wide dovetails with narrow pins which we like using a wooodrat or any other routing jig.

We tried to come up with a minimalist jig and method for cutting the dovetails on the bandsaw. We made this jig

It consists of a base board with four dowels which control the angle of cut. We marked up just one in a set of drawer sides and used this to set up the jig for each cut in the set. By changing the position of the dowels the angle of cut could be reversed. A more details (and better) description is in the blog.

Using this method David was able to dovetail and groove in the bottom board at three hours per drawer. Taking approx 60 hours for the lot.

I would be interested in any comments here or on the blog as to whether you think drawers dovetailed in this way can truthfully be said to be hand cut.

The only things left to do onthe kitchen are the worktops and the finishing, oiled, and the various bits and pieces that always get left to the end.

I will post pictures of the finished product in November after we have fitted it.

 

[BradNaylor]

.
Using this method David was able to dovetail and groove in the bottom board at three hours per drawer. Taking approx 60 hours for the lot.

:shock: :shock: :shock:

Wouldn't it have been quicker and just as valid to hand cut dovetails at the front corners for aesthetics and trench or domino at the back?

A week and a half making drawer boxes! I'd have been slitting my wrists!

 

[CNC Paul]

Chris,

That is coming along really well, how much time have you invested so far?

We had hoped to use cnc produced templates to cut the wave, but were unable to get sketchup pro to talk to the local bar fitters cnc machine.

Did you give the bar fitter the DXF output from Sketchup ?

 

[Mr T]

Brad wrote:

Wouldn't it have been quicker and just as valid to hand cut dovetails at the front corners for aesthetics and trench or domino at the back?

I suppose it's a matter of where you drawer the line. Some may say "Why bother with hand cutting at all and use a dovetail jig". We try to bring the same approach to kitchens as we do to furniture. Many furniture makers make kitchens to a lower spec and moan that they would rather be making "proper" furniture they only do it for the money. We want to make kitchens to the same level as our furniture and be proud of them. They are expensive, but we only plan to make one a year so we can wait for the right customer to come along.

CNC Paul said:

That is coming along really well, how much time have you invested so far?

We have spent 500 hours on it so far (I can hear Duncan sniggering already), but we are within budget with some profit showing at present.

We sent the CNC chap some DFX files from sketchup pro but they did not work. We are investigating this further.

Chris

 

[Doctor]

Looks good but I just for the life of me can't understand why the oak veneers are planted on top.
I can't help but think it will look "wrong".
I would worry about damage due to the veneer being caught or knocked.

I'm sure it will look fantastic though and the client will be delighted.