Wave kitchen

[Mr T]

Richard said:

That's interesting Chris, because I suspect you may have retrospectively overestimated the time you took to make the drawer boxes. The reason I suggest this is because I use a system of estimating whereby eight hours are allocated to making a single hand cut dovetailed drawer [four corners dovetailed]. This includes the manufacture and installation of slips, the making of a solid wood bottom and finally fitting the drawer to the opening. Multiples of the same, or similar, drawers attracts a 5% discount per drawer up to a maximum discount of 30%, ie six or more drawers automatically attracts the 30% discount. Further examples of discounting are: three drawers works out at 3 X 8 hours = 24 hours - 15% = 20.5 hours to the nearest half hour and; to make 6 drawers calculate (6 drawers X 8 hrs) X 0.7 [the 30% discount] = 33.5 hrs to the nearest half hour. Adjustments in time allowance, either up or down, are affected by the drawer's complexity, eg, a plywood or MDF drawer bottom simply cut to size takes less time than manufacturing a solid wood bottom.

Therefore, (19 drawers X 8 hrs) X 0.7 = 106.5 hours: a bit of a long (2-1/2+ weeks) boring job whichever way you look at it, ha, ha. In your case, having used machines to do the job, I guesstimate your actual time should be about half of that.

Attractive end result with the kitchen by the way.

Thanks for the kind words about the kitchen Richard.

I can't explain our difference in calculations! I outlined earlier how we cut the dovetails, it's also on my blog here http://www.christribe.co.uk/blog/hand-cut-dovetails/00049.html

We used a mixture of hand work and machines but still it worked out at 6 hrs per drawer and that's without a solid bottom and drawer slips. I would not say we are particularly slow workers, so where is the problem? I would possibly query the 30% discount for bulk when hand cutting, how do the extra numbers speed up ones hand cutting? But this still does not explain our 6 hours compared to your 2.8 per drawer for the 19 kitchen drawers.

Perhaps you could do a dovetailing masterclass for us so we can see how to speed things up.

Chris

 

[Sgian Dubh]

I can't explain our difference in calculations! I outlined earlier how we cut the dovetails, it's also on my blog here http://www.christribe.co.uk/blog/hand-cut-dovetails/00049.html

We used a mixture of hand work and machines but still it worked out at 6 hrs per drawer and that's without a solid bottom and drawer slips. I would not say we are particularly slow workers, so where is the problem? I would possibly query the 30% discount for bulk when hand cutting, how do the extra numbers speed up ones hand cutting? But this still does not explain our 6 hours compared to your 2.8 per drawer for the 19 kitchen drawers.

Perhaps you could do a dovetailing masterclass for us so we can see how to speed things up. Chris

"Working in this way David was able to dovetail a complete drawer and groove in the bottom in three hours. Making it about 60 hours for the whole set of drawers" (Source, http://www.christribe.co.uk/blog/hand-cut-dovetails/00049.html, 2011).

Chris, I'd not looked at your blog before, but I've just followed your link and quoted from it. 60 hours is about what I'd expect for the task given your machine methodolgy. A so-called 'masterclass' is maybe not required after all. Perhaps the job really did take about 60 hours, but for some unknown reason (brain fart?) you indicated in this thread it took nearly twice as long.

It's rather hard to comment without clarification of the job's time. Slainte.

 

[Mr T]

Hi Richard

"Working in this way David was able to dovetail a complete drawer and groove in the bottom in three hours. Making it about 60 hours for the whole set of drawers" (Source, http://www.christribe.co.uk/blog/hand-c ... 00049.html, 2011).

Chris, I'd not looked at your blog before, but I've just followed your link and quoted from it. 60 hours is about what I'd expect for the task given your machine methodolgy. A so-called 'masterclass' is maybe not required after all. Perhaps the job really did take about 60 hours, but for some unknown reason (brain fart?) you indicated in this thread it took nearly twice as long.

Well I'm not sure how to explain that! I've delayed replying to your post as I have been working on a set of three drawers using the same construction methods as outlined in the blog, except I use a router to hog out the waste between the pins rather than the Wood Rat. I've kept a close record of time and it's come out at 21 hrs for the three. This includes cutting out and preparing the timber, cutting the tails and pins, cutting out and fitting the bottom,cleaning up inside faces before gluing up, dry clamping, wet clamping, cleaning up the outer faces to the pin ends, drilling for the drawer front and runner fittings.

The only possible explanation I an think of is that the figure of three hours per drawer was to get to the point where the joints are cut and the bottom fitted. There are a few tasks to complete before the drawer is finished as outlined above, these will have bumped up the rate per drawer.

However the rate per drawer to get to the point where it is ready to put on the runners and screw to the front seems to be a consistent 6-7 hours when using semi automated methods.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Well I'm not sure how to explain that!... I've kept a close record of time and it's come out at 21 hrs for the three. This includes cutting out and preparing the timber,
However the rate per drawer to get to the point where it is ready to put on the runners and screw to the front seems to be a consistent 6-7 hours when using semi automated methods.

Chris, we may have found one cause for the higher than I would expect time for the task, highlighted in bold above.

The estimates I make for drawer construction start from timber that's already prepared for the job, ie, all the parts are squared and true ready for cutting to length, with the sides and front only requiring shooting to a tight fit into the opening-- this is for a traditional hand dovetailed drawer travelling between wooden runners and kickers.

In fact, all the tasks required for the construction of furniture (in the system of estimating I've devised and refined over many years) start with the assumption that the wood is already trued and squared. And for this initial selection of the wood, setting out the position of the parts on the rough sawn board, cutting to rough length and width, machining it square and true, etc, there is a charge of 0.8 hours per cubic foot: this is the same as charging 28.25 hours per cubic metre.

Similarly, there is a charge of 20 minutes per sheet for sizing board materials or, if preferred, three boards per hour, whatever the size, eg, 5' X 5', 8' X 4', 10' X 5', etc. These numbers are good when you are dealing with high grade boards, eg, if the board is pre-veneered with delicate veneers that mustn't be damaged and high accuracy is required. Cutting up lesser quality boards for lesser quality work may be chargeable at a slightly lower rate, eg, four boards per hour or one board every 15 minutes-- it depends on the job and the equipment and expertise to hand. Slainte.

 

[Mr T]

Hi Richard

That can't be the full explanation. There's about 0.36 cu ft in a drawer, allowing for wastage it's only going to add about 0.4 hrs then another bit for the sheet, so not more that 30-45 min. A big difference between my 6-7hrs per drawer and your 2.8 hrs plus 30-45 min. for semi automated methods.

This seems to be a dialogue between the two of us. It would be interesting to hear what times others reckon on for a drawer, I hope it doesn't show that I am hopelessly slow!

Chris

 

[mtr1]

I would be very disappointed if I didn't get two drawers done in a day, in fact I used to be able to do more, but I was doing price work for ten years. I think I was more motivated when I was in a very competitive(macho) environment, than I am now I have my own workshop perhaps.
I've got about thirty drawers to do soon, and I'm going to borrow a woodrat to see if it's quicker or a bit of a faff as I suspect. I will do 15 my way, 15 with the rat, and keep track of the times.