Wave kitchen

[BradNaylor]

I suppose it's a matter of where you drawer the line. Some may say "Why bother with hand cutting at all and use a dovetail jig". We try to bring the same approach to kitchens as we do to furniture.

It's funny - I was taught at college 30 odd years ago to dovetail (by hand) the front corners of drawers and to use a simple housing joint at the back. I have assumed ever since that this was the 'correct' way to make drawers.

We have spent 500 hours on it so far (I can hear Duncan sniggering already)

Not sniggering at all. Chris. I am in awe of your patience and persistence and admire your determination to stick with your high standards, even on a kitchen.

The fact is that even very expensive kitchens are generally made with the almost certain knowledge that it will all end up on a skip within 10 - 20 years. I hate to say it, but in all probability that is going to be the fate of the 'Wave Kitchen' too. With this in mind, 99.9% of makers compromise on certain aspects of the design or production methodology, and 99.99% of clients do not want to pay for top cabinetmaking techniques.

Congratulations for being among the 0.1% of makers and more especially for finding one of the 0.01% of clients!

:lol:

Brad

 

[BradNaylor]

It was only on a second reading that I realised that you were planting the oak veneer wave on top of the maple - I assumed at first that the two veneers would simply(!) be joined giving a flat finish.

Do you not have any worries about the oak wave starting to come away at the edge in use?

Looks good but I just for the life of me can't understand why the oak veneers are planted on top.
I can't help but think it will look "wrong".
I would worry about damage due to the veneer being caught or knocked.

And then there were two...

:shock:

 

[Doctor]

Finally Dunc, we agree on something :lol:

 

[Mr T]

Hi
Doctor said:

Looks good but I just for the life of me can't understand why the oak veneers are planted on top.
I can't help but think it will look "wrong".
I would worry about damage due to the veneer being caught or knocked

I understand your comment, we thought about it for a long time and seeing the finished panels it does work. We thought the tactile nature of the raised veneer would be attractive. On the wall units the raised edge creates an attractive shadow line. The 1.4mm veneer has good adhesion along all edges and they are arrised well so I do not tink there will be an issue with catching. To apply the veneer in the usual way would have pushed the hours up even further so there were economic as well as aesthetic considerations in the method.

It's funny - I was taught at college 30 odd years ago to dovetail (by hand) the front corners of drawers and to use a simple housing joint at the back. I have assumed ever since that this was the 'correct' way to make drawers.

I am self taught but David, with whom I work, trained at Leeds College of Art and was taught to dovetail the backs of drawers. They do things differently in Yorkshire

Oh dear, I seem to have stated using emoticons

Chris

 

[Mr T]

By the way, if anyone happens to be in N Yorks call in you can see the kitchen "in the flesh". You cold even check out the veneer edges and reassure Brad and The Doctor that they are quite robust!

Chris

 

[jimmy rivers]

Looks great Chris. David pulling his weight?

Look forward to seeing it all fitted.

Jim

 

[Dibs-h]

It's funny - I was taught at college 30 odd years ago to dovetail (by hand) the front corners of drawers and to use a simple housing joint at the back. I have assumed ever since that this was the 'correct' way to make drawers.

+1

When I did woodworking at school - back in the days when Schools actually had proper woodworking facilities, that's what I was taught. And the reasoning for that (if you could call it that) chimes with other stuff I've seen over the years.

But as with all these things - in some cases there isn't truly a right way, it's whatever is right for you (and your client).

Dibs

 

[Mr T]

Hi

Finally got some pofessional shots of this kitchen. Quite pleased with them as is the customer with the kitchen. We also did th floor inlay. More on the making of this kitchen on my blog http://www.christribe.co.uk/blog/wave-kitchen-news/00048.html:

No sign of lifting of the oak veneer by the way Duncan.

Chris

 

[mtr1]

Very smart, I like it. How long did it take Chris?

 

[Mr T]

Ages!

Chris

PS I'll look up the time and post later

 

[mailee]

That really is a stunning kitchen Chris. I don't suppose it was you who made the one on the Saturday kitchen show was it? Very interesting build.

 

[RogerM]

That really is something very special. Beautifully executed and the client can be sure they have something unique.

 

[Mr T]

Hi Mark

Are you sitting down? We took 1009 hr on it, including the floor and project management.

Chris

 

[mtr1]

Thanks for your honesty Chris, it represents over two thirds of a year of bookable man hours! Is there anything you think you could of done to cut some time off, whilst still maintaining the high standard, now it's done and dusted? Please don't say sub it out :lol: I know one or two D/M's that do just that for kitchens.

 

[Mr T]

Hi Mark

This kitchen was made entirely from scratch. The carcases dominoed from oak veneered mdf, the doors and drawer panels were veneered using a vacuum bag and the wave applied front and back., the cacases were finished using brush applied acrylic and the doors, worktops etc with rag applied hardwax oil, the drawers have "hand cut dovetails". I suppose we could have done each of those differently to bring down the man hours. Given our current setup as high end bespoke furniture makers these seemed to be the best way of doing it. Bear in mind also that the cost of the kitchen was still probably less than the usual high end makers such as Smallbone and Wilkinsons would charge for an equivelant. We charged £31,000 and came in about £400 under that.

The two main things that would have cut down the time would have been spray finishing or a heated veneer press. Both of which would take up a lot of space in the workshop. Perhaps if we move workshops we may consider that. The area in which we under estimated seriously was the fitting. We tried to solve all the problems in the workshop but still took a lot longer to fit than we planned, I suppose there are always a lot more things to do on a fit than are planned for.

Also we had a student working with us for about two months in the summer, he worked at about a third of our speed but we paid him minimum wage. THis would be reflected in the hours.

Chris

 

[mtr1]

Hi Mark

This kitchen was made entirely from scratch. The carcases dominoed from oak veneered mdf, the doors and drawer panels were veneered using a vacuum bag and the wave applied front and back., the cacases were finished using brush applied acrylic and the doors, worktops etc with rag applied hardwax oil, the drawers have "hand cut dovetails". I suppose we could have done each of those differently to bring down the man hours. Given our current setup as high end bespoke furniture makers these seemed to be the best way of doing it. Bear in mind also that the cost of the kitchen was still probably less than the usual high end makers such as Smallbone and Wilkinsons would charge for an equivelant. We charged £31,000 and came in about £400 under that.




Chris

Chris,

When you mention "handcut dovetails" are you hogging out the waste with a router and then finishing to the knife lines by hand, or are you literately chopping these all by hand? The cost of your kitchen seem's low to me for this level, and attention to detail. The grain matching is flawless, as far as I can tell. I would say SB and Wilks would be charging 45k+ and not doing such a fine job either.

 

[Mr T]

Hi Mark

Thanks for your comments.

I mentioned the dovetails on a previous post. We cut the dovetails by "hand" on the bandsaw and cleaned up the pin sockets with a chisel. Then the pins were cut with a Woodrat. My collegue David Wilson is good with a WR and claims this method can be called "hand cut dovetails". I'm not so sure. A full description of this method is on the blog http://www.christribe.co.uk/blog/hand-cut-dovetails/00049.html. As Jason, who works with us, commented perhaps they could be called "contemporary hand cut dovetails" as opposed to "traditional hand cut dovetails"! I think it took 114 hrs to cut 19 large dovetailed drawers this way this way.

I would be interested to hear others views on what constitutes a "hand cut dovetail."

Chris

 

[Anonymous]

the kitchen looks brilliant Chris, I very much doubt i would have the patience to handle this one. I think the grain matching is absolutely spot on.

to me a hand cut dovetail is just that, marked out and cut by hand, with no use of mechanical aid.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

We cut the dovetails by "hand" on the bandsaw and cleaned up the pin sockets with a chisel. Then the pins were cut with a Woodrat... I think it took 114 hrs to cut 19 large dovetailed drawers this way this way.
I would be interested to hear others views on what constitutes a "hand cut dovetail."
Chris

That's interesting Chris, because I suspect you may have retrospectively overestimated the time you took to make the drawer boxes. The reason I suggest this is because I use a system of estimating whereby eight hours are allocated to making a single hand cut dovetailed drawer [four corners dovetailed]. This includes the manufacture and installation of slips, the making of a solid wood bottom and finally fitting the drawer to the opening. Multiples of the same, or similar, drawers attracts a 5% discount per drawer up to a maximum discount of 30%, ie six or more drawers automatically attracts the 30% discount. Further examples of discounting are: three drawers works out at 3 X 8 hours = 24 hours - 15% = 20.5 hours to the nearest half hour and; to make 6 drawers calculate (6 drawers X 8 hrs) X 0.7 [the 30% discount] = 33.5 hrs to the nearest half hour. Adjustments in time allowance, either up or down, are affected by the drawer's complexity, eg, a plywood or MDF drawer bottom simply cut to size takes less time than manufacturing a solid wood bottom.

Therefore, (19 drawers X 8 hrs) X 0.7 = 106.5 hours: a bit of a long (2-1/2+ weeks) boring job whichever way you look at it, ha, ha. In your case, having used machines to do the job, I guesstimate your actual time should be about half of that.

Attractive end result with the kitchen by the way. Slainte.

 

[mtr1]

Hmmm I think my method(not mine of course) of cutting hand-cut dovetails is quicker(maybe), I freehand the sockets and pins with my router, then pare to the line with chisels, and bandsaw the tails freehand. Will know soon enough as I have about 30 to do in some wardrobes, fortunately not all at the same time, but I will keep a track on how long they take.