Wainscoting Dimensions

[MichaelM]

Hello everybody,

I've been looking around the site, and indeed on the net itself for information on wainscoting. From what I can find with Google, it seems only Americans have that sort of thing! Now I know that isn't true, but I'm hoping that somebody here would have some knowledge of it.

I am planning to fit it in several rooms of a 100+ year old cottage and I was wondering what the dimensions of traditional wainscoting would have been. For whatever reason, rightly or wrongly, I was thinking of 100mm wide by 900mm high new pitch pine boards, TG&V with a bead down one side, ...but would that be historically correct, if you know what I mean? How thick would those timbers need to be, and how far out from the plaster would the outer face of the boards have been? I'm keen to get it looking just right, and if anybody has the answers to these questions, I'd really appreciate the info.

I'm amazed how little I can find in this area. I have come across it several times over the years in various jobs we have done, but never thought to measure it! Now when I need that info, I'm a blank.

Thanks,

Michael

 

[DomValente]

What an incredible coincidence.
I have today been to a house which has various rooms dating between 1730 and 1870.

According to my measurements the older rooms have wainscotting at 5'6" this is actually panelled, wheras in the later Victorian rooms the height is 4' plus a dado/chair rail of 2" by 2" section.
The house was originally commisioned by a Lord so suspect these dimensions are pretty accurate.

Dom

 

[MichaelM]

Thank you, Dom!

Talk about being in the right place at the right time!

The Victorian period would be chronologically closer to my own cottage. I wonder was 4ft the standard height, or would it ever have been lower than that. I'm just wondering where I got the 900mm height stuck in my head from, as it sounds low, but then again I have low ceilings in some sections and 4ft high may be a little imposing.

Was it T&G wainscoting in the Victorian part of the house you were in, and have you any idea how far it sat out from the wall i.e. I note you mentioned it had a 2x2 chair rail on top, was the paneling set back from the edge of the chair rail much?

Thanks again,

Michael

 

[Steve Maskery]

Eee by gum, this teks me back!

Our family Home was a turn-of -the-century semi, long hall corridoor with two rooms off, and two kitchens and coalhouse at the rear.

When we moved in in 1966 or thereabouts, there were all original features, incuding gas mantles on the walls, and some of the walls were not plastered, rather they had lath and hessian on them. One room, our bedroom, had 13 layers of wallpaper.

The dining room had wainscotting, which, of course, dad prompty ripped out. My recollection is that 100mm would be about right (4" over here) and it was waist height, so 900mm would be 3ft over here. It was covered in a thick brown treacly varnish. Why did they do that?

I now live in a 1937 house and the woodwork in this house was also once covered in the same brown goo. Impossible to paint over.

Cheers
Steve

 

[DomValente]

Michael, if you can wait until tomorrow evening I will take and post pictures and take more measurements.
I think Steves' houses were probably Edwardian
Dom

Edit: just reread Steves' post and that's what he said

 

[Steve Maskery]

Hi Dom

We took a brick out once when bricking up a fireplace, which had 1901 stamped on it, so its even money!
Cheers
Steve

 

[Scrit]

It was covered in a thick brown treacly varnish. Why did they do that?

Dunno, but it disguises the smoking stains reet good, young 'un.

I'm not sure about dimensions, but our last house had some remnants of it when we moved in. I believe it was often used where the walls suffered from damp - ours certainly did. When I ripped it out there was a wonderful assortment of dry rot, wet rot and more slugs and woodlice than I'd ever seen in one place at one time..... frfom memory 1 metre high seems about right, although ours was made from random 6 to 8in wide T&G boards. I well recall that the wainscotting in my grandmother's back room (the parlour had wallpaper, plaster skirtings and a dado rail) was only 3 to 4in wide with a scalloped face on the planks and topped off with a simple wide bullnose strip. But that may have been a 20th century replacement. Same dark brown goo, though....... I reckon they only had rwo colours, brown and green back then :roll:

Scrit

 

[DomValente]

Hi Dom

We took a brick out once when bricking up a fireplace, which had 1901 stamped on it, so its even money!
Cheers
Steve

Eee by eck I was reet.

Why are we talking like this ?

Dom

 

[Scrit]

Eee by eck I was reet.

Cuz it's berra thun takin' lyke Eynuch an' Eylaih?

 

[DomValente]

Huh ?

 

[JFC]

eeeeeeeeee thee remember when we ad to eat coal fut breakfast !

 

[Jake]

It was covered in a thick brown treacly varnish. Why did they do that?

Because the Victorians regarded softwoods as unfit for display, so they donkey-browned them. Same reason as you see the doors with the feathered fake wood grain paint and the black bitumen stuff on floorboards around the perimeter of the room (where the rugs didn't cover).

 

[woodbloke]

Eee by eck I was reet.

Cuz it's berra thun takin' lyke Eynuch an' Eylaih?

Customer feedback - ....Unintelligible thankyou - Rob

 

[MichaelM]

Michael, if you can wait until tomorrow evening I will take and post pictures and take more measurements.
I think Steves' houses were probably Edwardian
Dom

Dom, that would be above and beyond the call of duty, but very, very much appreciated, not to mention helpful too! I'll get a good look at some original details, and your measurements will be invaluable. I'm particularly curious as to just how far it sat out from the wall, if you know what I'm getting at?

Victorian or Edwardian period? I have no idea when exactly my cottage was built. It is built from stone and was falling down when I got it, .....so it's old! I'm guessing 100 years old, and while I'm sure there never was wainscoting in it originally, I would like to add the character that it provides. Something from those periods that would look good in an old cottage with exposed stonework, etc, etc, you know the drill!!

I'm glad I asked the question now!

Thank's to all,

Michael

 

[Anonymous]

Hello everybody,

I've been looking around the site, and indeed on the net itself for information on wainscoting. From what I can find with Google, it seems only Americans have that sort of thing!

Thats cos wainscot is more used by Americans where we would say panelling (I'm told)

Now I know that isn't true, but I'm hoping that somebody here would have some knowledge of it.

I am planning to fit it in several rooms of a 100+ year old cottage and I was wondering what the dimensions of traditional wainscoting would have been. For whatever reason, rightly or wrongly, I was thinking of 100mm wide by 900mm high new pitch pine boards, TG&V with a bead down one side, ...but would that be historically correct, if you know what I mean?

Early softwood T&G (as wall covering) can be wider up to 9 or 10inches, often not actually T&G but having rebates on opposite edges, not with a bevel making a V but usually just a bead, sometimes quite tiny 3/16" dia. Boards also thinner than you'd expect down to to 10mm. T&G with a bead is a bit late Victorian when machining was easier. There's loads of variations - basically the simpler the cheaper the humbler the building. At the other extreme are walls constructed from solid 12"x2" oak boards either lapped or butted together, or constructed framed raised fielded moulded panelling etc.

How thick would those timbers need to be, and how far out from the plaster would the outer face of the boards have been? I'm keen to get it looking just right, and if anybody has the answers to these questions, I'd really appreciate the info.

There isn't a just right unless you can find out how the buildling was originally, but it might not have had any panelling anyway

I'm amazed how little I can find in this area. I have come across it several times over the years in various jobs we have done, but never thought to measure it! Now when I need that info, I'm a blank.

Thanks,

Michael

You wouldn't have plaster and boards unless a retro fit, it's one or the other.
There's not a clear distinction between wood as wall itself, or as wall covering on wooden structure, or covering as boards or constructed (fielded) panels on either wood or masonry structure, or part panels to dado height.
There's a lot of info in The Shell Book of The Home in Britain James Ayres. This is a lovely book and absolutely essential for all old building renovators interested in historical detail.
The very best reference source for old building info is of course old buildings themselves. Go and have a look at some and take you camera - there's masses of info out there but you've been ignoring it!

cheers
Jacob
PS

Something from those periods that would look good in an old cottage with exposed stonework

You don't get exposed stonework in old cottages unless the lowest of the low, it's a boring modern fashion. Also makes for cold walls and traps dust.
Utterly improbable that you'd get panelling and exposed stone work, it just wouldn't make any sense and would look wrong. Praps in a cowshed though?

 

[MichaelM]

Thats cos wainscot is more used by Americans where we would say panelling (I'm told)

That sorts that out then! I have heard it called both, but wainscoting always stuck in my memory.

There's loads of variations - basically the simpler the cheaper the humbler the building.

It's an old farm cottage, nothing much more humble than that! No raised panels in this one!

There isn't a just right unless you can find out how the buildling was originally, but it might not have had any panelling anyway

I was referring to aesthetically pleasing, what looks right, is right if you know what I mean. This cottage certainly did not have panelling, but as I'm sure you will appreciate, the fresh plaster etc have left a blank canvas with which to work, and I love the appearance of wood in a home. To me it adds warmth, atmosphere, and if done correctly, an air of quality.

You wouldn't have plaster and boards unless a retro fit, it's one or the other.

I know what you're saying but I should have been more specific. Instead of plaster I should have said wall, whether that be plastered in lime or some other finish. Any panelling I can remember, had a rail along the top and it is the distance from the surface of the wall to the outer face of the panelling that I am curious about.

The very best reference source for old building info is of course old buildings themselves. Go and have a look at some and take you camera - there's masses of info out there but you've been ignoring it!

I wouldn't say that, it would be more accurate to admit that I've looked at so much over the years, ideas have come and gone, ...and I've forgotten them! Pictures were taken from time to time, but have disappeared now I'm sorry to say. Old materials and buildings are no strangers to me as I have worked on the renovation and restoration of several old buildings, always done to someone else's taste, but this time it's my turn.

You don't get exposed stonework in old cottages unless the lowest of the low, it's a boring modern fashion. Also makes for cold walls and traps dust.
Utterly improbable that you'd get panelling and exposed stone work, it just wouldn't make any sense and would look wrong.

This old cottage was originally plastered with lime, and of course painted. Rough, uneven 500mm thick walls, low doors, open hearth with crook etc, etc.

I agree they are likely to harbour dust, but much like oiled timber, if you like the look of it, you better be prepared for the upkeep of it as well! I can't see how the addition of a coat of plaster would give a stone wall any more heat retention qualities though. It's a matter of taste, but modern fashion or not, I think stonework is a thing of beauty. I'm biased in that regard though, as recreating old stonework has formed part of my job description over the years, walls and complete cottages that lie about their age. I have painstakingly rebuilt some stone walls in my house, built in such a way as to be seen, that is. No little patches of ugly stone visible here and there, proper full size walls carefully built of the stuff with an eye to detail.

To me the use of traditional materials is very appealing as I'm a very tactile sort of "hands on" man. I will be using pitch pine, and I have used reclaimed brick and actual stone from the demolition of walls in the house and I think it is a shame to do otherwise in a building such as this and not see them, unless you are a purist and are approaching the work from that particular viewpoint.

The picture I have in my mind of waxed pitch pine, stonework, old brick, a vaulted ceiling with beams etc excites me, and just says homely to me, and I have felt that way long before it ever became a fashion, back to my childhood in fact.

Maybe the fact too that there are a couple of areas that were sacrificed to the gods of expediency and economy at the time, has steeled my determination to ensure that doesn't happen again and detract any more from the cottage.

Praps in a cowshed though?

My kitchen used to be a milking parlour, does that count??

Thanks very much for the information; that was certainly a comprehensive answer!

I'm away to google "Panelling"!

All the best,

Michael

 

[Scrit]

Eee by eck I was reet.

Cuz it's berra thun takin' lyke Eynuch an' Eylaih?

Eynoch and Eliah - cartoon characters who spoke with a particularly broad and old-fashioned Black Country dialect

Scrit

 

[woody67]

It's a matter of taste, but modern fashion or not, I think stonework is a thing of beauty.

=D> =D> well done Michael! Harbouring dust isn't a major problem on our dining room stonework (not brickwork) a few coats of diamond hard matt varnish and it was sorted. The original stonework wasn't even pointed and the old lime mortar can still be seen without a hint of dust or crumble. I actually built a frame to accept a dresser onto the wall and it was probably harder than plastering the wall itself!

 

[engineer one]

that 'orrible brown stuff was called scumble glaze, and my digs in old luton had that all over the place. also our cottage in lincs when i was young had the same product.

as i understood it there were two reasons for using it. one was the worry about the quality of the soft wood, the other was to be able to mix and match a number of different woods throughout the house, and end up with a single matched colour. remember although they had ply, it was rarely at that time machine made, and of course mdf etc were not available. at that time too, the builders were always looking for cheaper ways to produce the houses, hence the term "jerry " built. even queen anne houses, ie around 1700 were not meant to last over 350 years as they have, and as many of us who have worked in them know the quality is in the design and projection, often not in the back rooms and behind the scenes.

the other thing about scumble, which is now used by prissy designers to add additional colours to certain paints, and is thus now a clear varnish to which you add colour, was used in houses with gas light, and i would think that the plan was to reduce the ability to catch light.

anyway it is important to remember that the reason for dado's etc was to stop chairs damaging the walls. mainly because rather like the shakers style, when you had little furniture it was kind of displayed against the walls rather than in modern settings. thus the heights were to keep the top of the chair away.

paul :wink:

 

[MichaelM]

The original stonework wasn't even pointed and the old lime mortar can still be seen without a hint of dust or crumble.

When I was demolishing certain walls in the cottage either because they were badly cracked, or simply to get a window or door in, I was amazed at how dry, yet stable the lime mortar was in most of the walls.

I actually built a frame to accept a dresser onto the wall and it was probably harder than plastering the wall itself!

I know what you mean! I'm looking forward (not!) to scribing my panelling where it meets the stonework on an adjoining wall. This is the bit where my plan falls into difficulty. It's gonna have to be tidy!! :lol: :lol:

that 'orrible brown stuff was called scumble glaze, and my digs in old luton had that all over the place. also our cottage in lincs when i was young had the same product.

That's a coincidence, I heard some painters recently talking about "Scumble Mix" and recommending it to someone for his wooden windows.

Thanks to all,

Michael