Wadkin Time Warp Workshop - Kent

[tool613]

O!M!G!

I live in the wrong country. That has got to be the best find i have ever seen. The Wadkin and CO was changed to LTD in 1936 so there that old. Its fun to see that they had not changed much in some of the designs. Wadkin was one of the first in the UK to motor up theses old machines and I belieave they did that in 1928. so I think there some were between 1938 and 1928. You see the propelled logo tells me that.

I'm working on an Wadkin RM PT and some of the casting have MJ in the casting marks. The R family are these machines with electric motors. you could still order line drive as an option in the 50s tho. so it would not be that hard to put motors to them. Is the rip saw a double arbor. You really did not get tilting arbor until the electric motors designs came in. that where the tilting fence came in. fun to see what was carried forward.

jack

 

[jimi43]

Thought you would enjoy this thread Jack! :mrgreen:

Douglas and I spoke of you today...wouldn't it be wonderful if the whole lot was set up as a workshop of how it used to be.

WIth things this size...it's difficult to find the right home and criminal not to. A very difficult decision for the present owner...hopefully making the find more public might result an answer.

Jim

 

[tool613]

jim
That all must have been set up at the same time back in the day. those machines look in really great shape and the same age.

Really Wadkin should be contacted and see if there is funding to save them. I would be in heaven saving that shop.


I have posted this on the other side of the pond in your credit.

what are your hopes.

jack

 

[jimi43]

jim
That all must have been set up at the same time back in the day. those machines look in really great shape and the same age.

Really Wadkin should be contacted and see if there is funding to save them. I would be in heaven saving that shop.


I have posted this on the other side of the pond in your credit.

what are your hopes.

jack

Hi Jack

You have a PM saying exactly that!

Do you have the link where you posted it over there please?

In the article recently posted as PDF (800k) HERE you can read that in 1988 the workshop was still running...up to 1994 and it would appear the equipment was there in 1933 when the engine was fitted to replace one which was considered a fire hazard.

I'm wondering if this was a time when the radial arm saw was installed as this is later but two plates on it say LTD and CO at the same time...a transitional one?

Perhaps a more exact date may come from the Brooks motor...

(both pics reposted to save looking back a page)


Thanks

Jim

 

[Tony Spear]

Jim,

going by Jack's estimation of the age of these machines ther's a fair chance that the engine was actually an oil engine (basically a diesel). To run a gas engine there'd have to be a source of gas!
National was actually the National Gas and Oil Engine Company, founded by the Bickerton brothers around 1890 in (I think!) Ashton - under - Lyne.
They were the main supplier of (Oil) engines to Narrow Boat builders in the years running up to the War and slightly beyond.
In fact, I'm reasonably sure that somebody is still making the National Narrow Boat engines.
Best source of further information is probably the Anson Museum at Poynton in Cheshire.

 

[tool613]

jim
That all must have been set up at the same time back in the day. those machines look in really great shape and the same age.

Really Wadkin should be contacted and see if there is funding to save them. I would be in heaven saving that shop.


I have posted this on the other side of the pond in your credit.

what are your hopes.

jack

Hi Jack

You have a PM saying exactly that!

Do you have the link where you posted it over there please?

In the article recently posted as PDF (800k) HERE you can read that in 1988 the workshop was still running...up to 1994 and it would appear the equipment was there in 1933 when the engine was fitted to replace one which was considered a fire hazard.

I'm wondering if this was a time when the radial arm saw was installed as this is later but two plates on it say LTD and CO at the same time...a transitional one?

Perhaps a more exact date may come from the Brooks motor...

(both pics reposted to save looking back a page)


Thanks

Jim

PM sent

link
http://www.owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=110362


jack

 

[kirkpoore1]

I was thinking about whether each machine would be able to be electrified?

Jim

Can't see why not in principle. Assuming that the flat belt pulleys can be removed that is. Flat belts don't work properly on short belt runs.
Adding motor mounts would be easy for anyone mechanically minded. Beware of some machines like a table saw that might have a tilting arbour that relies on the flexibility of a long belt. It might be difficult to mount a motor on the trunnion of such machines.

hth
Bob

Excellent find. Even over here, a find this big only shows up every few years, and it's never all one manufacturer.

Yes, they can all be individually motor driven. I have three former lineshaft machines that have motors now. Two are driven by v-belts and one by a flat belt. I don't think any one machine would take more than a 5 hp motor.

Can you take some pictures of the lineshaft(s) and the countershafts? Sometimes those are really interesting. In particular the spindle molder could be a real find. Those were often reversible, driven by a cone friction drive, and are extremely rare.

I concur that the double-wheel frame on the wall is likely a sharpening jig. There is probably a tooth setting jig among the debris, and the individual teeth might have been hand filed or ground.

The thread on OWWM is here:http://owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=110362
(Edit: Oops, Jack beat me to it.)

Kirk

 

[jimi43]

Jim,

going by Jack's estimation of the age of these machines ther's a fair chance that the engine was actually an oil engine (basically a diesel). To run a gas engine there'd have to be a source of gas!
National was actually the National Gas and Oil Engine Company, founded by the Bickerton brothers around 1890 in (I think!) Ashton - under - Lyne.
They were the main supplier of (Oil) engines to Narrow Boat builders in the years running up to the War and slightly beyond.
In fact, I'm reasonably sure that somebody is still making the National Narrow Boat engines.
Best source of further information is probably the Anson Museum at Poynton in Cheshire.

There is more information on the engine in the PDF and you are correct...it is National Gas and Oil....

I am not an expert on these either but it is a beautiful machine...I am kicking myself for not getting a picture. Perhaps we can get one from Douglas or Ben.

Cheers

Jimi

 

[Tony Spear]

Thinking about it even more, a great many engines of that time could run on gas or "light enine oil" (ask a vintage tractor fan about that, I think it's basically the same as what they call TVO). At the Cricket Club that I played for for years we had an old "Grey Fergie" tractor which was started on neat petrol, then once it was up to temperature, you switched it over to the TVO tank. As TVO was not easy to obtain and cost an arm and a leg, we made our own (4 Litres from somebody's central heating oil tank and 1 Litre of petrol!) :mrgreen:

Some of the blower drives on the Grain Dryers in our village are still Gas/Oil dual fuel.

 

[jimi43]

Hi Kirk

Thanks for your comments my friend.

I missed Andy's comment there about the sharpening jig...with all the threads on sharpening here I thought he was kidding but I see now! Nice one Andy! Adds to the picture as this was upstairs in the very light workshop and would be quieter and more relaxing to do this job. Fascinating!

Regarding the pulleys...unfortunately I didn't get shots down in the pits...I think Ben has the facility to take more pictures...I will ask him or he might see this and take some in which case we will post them later.

I will also advise him to contact Wadkin history department to see if they are interested in funding the rescue. I was fascinated as I have seen these workshop setups only in books and to see one "live" was a truly great experience indeed!

There is also a place nearby which has all sorts of machinery....about 5 miles away...maybe they would set it up in a building as a working exhibit? It's part of our national history and should be preserved as such.

Jim

 

[Tony Spear]

Finding info on the electric motors might be a little more problematic, due to the massive changes in the British Electrical industry, particularly in the 60's and 70's. BTH were established in the late 19c and were a major electrical manufacturer, based in Rugby. At some time in the late 20's AEI was created and absorbed BTH and Metropolitan-Vickers and others. After much to-ing and fro-ing (including the aquisition of Siemens Brothers in 1953) By 1960 AEI had dropped the BTH name and others, which led to a major collapse as nobody in BTH and Siemens customary markets had ever heard of AEI. In '67, GEC bought AEI outright, becoming the largest Electrical company in Britain. This was all still going on in Rugby.

By the 80's all this had started to contract.

In 1989 GEC split into Alsthom and Cegelec Projects, but in 1998 they re-merged into Alsthom (still on part of the old Rugby site when I last had any dealings with them).)

 

[condeesteso]

(Thawed out now!). Brilliant to see the interest this lot is getting. I have never seen quite so much Wadkin gear all in one place (Morgan Timber in Strood comes vaguely close).
I need to check through pics but have a bad feeling I didn't snap the engine either - will check asap.
Ah yes, the bsaw sharpening jig - twas very cold and the brain was malfunctioning, but absolutely. I noted the blade width max would have only been 1", I'm certain no more judging by the protruding guides on the wheels. Also the blade fitted looked 3/4" which struck me as quite narrow.
I imagine the real hope for these machines now rests on the question, can they be sparked up? If they come from a period when an equivalent was available with motor (electric) then maybe yes, but a Wadkin expert might know, or Wadkin themselves. Otherwise I rather fear for their prospects.
I imagine Ben would let the engine go too, but the cost of recreating this whole set-up, the space required etc... would surely be considerable and I'm no expert on Health & Safety, but can't imagine this set-up becoming commercially viable again?
Ben did mention he passed on an offer of £5k for the engine some time in the mid nineties and now regrets not taking it.
But seeing that lot confirmed my great affection for older Wadkin gear - totally impractical for me, but great to get up close to.
Will post pics of the 3 benches when I can find lead to wife's Ixus! But be prepared for the fact the front legs were flush :wink:

 

[houtslager]

Abso bloody marvelous find there my man
pipper getting those machines out, I'd want to MOVE IN
and get them going again, though I wonder if there would any work in the area for a joiner / cabinetmaker ?

Would Ben rent the place out ?

drooling over the workshop first, then the machinery here in a frozen Friesland

Karl

 

[condeesteso]

here are the benches ( pics a lot bigger if you click on them):

I'd guess they were about 12 feet long, rock solid and well used indeed. I only had a quick look at vices but couldn't see a brand name. Jim probably mentioned this but seems they made architectural - doors, windows, mouldings etc... so everything was on a larger scale, including a huge external door on 1st floor (where the benches are) to get the work out. There is a centrally placed trapdoor in floor / ceiling to get prepped stock up from machine shop into finishing area above. Just thought - no sign at all anywhere I noticed of chip / dust collection. But the odd stove lying around so maybe it all got burned.

 

[jimi43]

Oh dear....perhaps we were so awed by the engine we were struck photo-less! I'll see if Ben can take some!

Re dust extraction....I think this period had an Apprentice Junior in the corner with master craftsman activated circulating brush system complete with shovel filter into cast iron combustion chambers. A chip collector was only activated on Fridays.

I have a similar setup at home but it's the Advanced Married version. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Jim

 

[tool613]

Boys

My buddy Matty down under is getting together to post every one of those machines from his catalog collection.
Keep am eye on the post this week end.

thank you so much for posting this it is over the top for me.

jack

 

[kirkpoore1]

Oh dear....perhaps we were so awed by the engine we were struck photo-less! I'll see if Ben can take some!

Re dust extraction....I think this period had an Apprentice Junior in the corner with master craftsman activated circulating brush system complete with shovel filter into cast iron combustion chambers. A chip collector was only activated on Fridays.

I have a similar setup at home but it's the Advanced Married version. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Jim

I used to have that system, in the two stage variant:

Worked great, except it got a little cold during the winter.

Kirk

 

[bugbear]

And now friends...my favourite machine of all...the massive bandsaw.....

The guards look as if they were added later - it was originally a REAL man's tool, with no elf and safety nonsense to get in the way!

BugBear

 

[Chrispy]

Does any one know when this workshop was last used? although there's a lot of history, there also seems to be clues as to quite reacent activety which when stopped I would guess all the "newer" stuff was removed. Maybe 20>30 years ago?

 

[jimi43]

Hi Chris

1994 by all accounts Chris.

I love the sawdust on the name plates!!

Jim