Wadkin ags 10 Lock Nut

[Fergie 307]

I was thinking along the lines of obtaining a length of suitable threaded bar and matching nut, available from the people mentioned previously.
You could then let the threaded bar into the end of the spindle in place of the existing one.
If Deema made the shaft then he will be well placed to comment on whether that is a viable option.

 

[deema]

There should be a threaded hole in the end of the shaft to allow it to be extended, this can be used with a collar / bush to create an alternative nut arrangement.

 

[niall Y]

Here is a question, asked with complete naivety - Could a nut not be cast around the threaded spindle? Maybe some form of reinforced epoxy or even bronze?

 

[Fergie 307]

I think it's the nut that holds the blade in place, so not sure that would be wise Mr Mainwaring

 

[niall Y]

Point taken re the epoxy, Sergeant Wilson . But surely bronze would be okay?

 

[ChaiLatte]

But surely bronze would be okay?

You would need to be well sure the cast nut could be removed from the spindle once it had solidified. It will be intimate contact with the shaft when poured and as it shrinks when it cools, it might become even more tight.

With a slight modification, you could do a lower risk version of this: make a cast of the threads on the spindle in wax or foam, remove that and then use in a traditional casting mould to make the bronze casting.

The threads in the cast nut would almost certainly need some hand finishing and that would be very tricky.

Maybe at the wax stage, you could scrape out a little material from the soft wax to give clearance.

It would be great if there were something you could apply to the existing threads that made them uniformly bigger in all directions so that the wax casting would have clearance without any need for adjustment.

---

A traditional solution to repairing the shafts of motors (often when the keyway has been wallowed out) is to turn them down a little, weld them back up oversize and then machine a new keyway.

A similar approach could be adopted here: turn off the old threads, weld back up, turn down to 16mm diameter and then cut an M16 x 2 LH thread on the shaft. The secret in the initial diameter reduction is to go below the root diameter of the new M16 thread, so that the new thread is cut into fresh weld material, not some unknown alloy of old and new material in a heat affected zone.

 

[Fitzroy]

I can’t remember the details but there have been previous posts on this exact same thing, a new nut for a Wadkin AGS. I don’t think anyone found a supplier of an after market nut that would fit. A good search on these forums may find the posts.

 

[Bingy man]

Interesting thread ( no pun intended ) sad thing is there is some old boy somewhere who probably has a few of these nuts in his shed or garage just sitting there . Hopefully the op will be able to source one or come up with an alternative option.

 

[Fergie 307]

You would need to be well sure the cast nut could be removed from the spindle once it had solidified. It will be intimate contact with the shaft when poured and as it shrinks when it cools, it might become even more tight.

With a slight modification, you could do a lower risk version of this: make a cast of the threads on the spindle in wax or foam, remove that and then use in a traditional casting mould to make the bronze casting.

The threads in the cast nut would almost certainly need some hand finishing and that would be very tricky.

Maybe at the wax stage, you could scrape out a little material from the soft wax to give clearance.

It would be great if there were something you could apply to the existing threads that made them uniformly bigger in all directions so that the wax casting would have clearance without any need for adjustment.

---

A traditional solution to repairing the shafts of motors (often when the keyway has been wallowed out) is to turn them down a little, weld them back up oversize and then machine a new keyway.

A similar approach could be adopted here: turn off the old threads, weld back up, turn down to 16mm diameter and then cut an M16 x 2 LH thread on the shaft. The secret in the initial diameter reduction is to go below the root diameter of the new M16 thread, so that the new thread is cut into fresh weld material, not some unknown alloy of old and new material in a heat affected zone.

Good reading in many old engineering books, in the days when parts were expensive and labour relatively cheap.
There are still companies about who do metal spraying, electro deposition and the various other techniques, all very expensive nowadays.
Practically speaking I would have thought the easiest and cheapest approach would be to get a suitable length of left hand acme threaded bar and a matching nut in a generally available size, maybe M16. Then fit the bar into the shaft in place of the original. Many ways to do that. Saves an awful lot of faffing about.

 

[Housey210]

Hi fellas! First time posting here!

Been slowly restoring this wadkin ags 10 saw and now got too actually putting a blade on it.
Trouble is I have absolutely no idea what thread this is or where to get one. I know for sure it is a reverse thread. Suspect it is imperial and also suspect it is square not acme.
Can anyone help with sourcing or identifying this thread or how to get a nut for it?

I have already messaged my local machine shop and they were very helpful quoting me websites where I may find a nut for it (but I have no idea which one is the right one) but they said the quote would be around £300-400 as they don't have the skills and tools so would have to take a whole day to do it.
Thanks Sam!

View attachment 190147

https://www.advancedmachinery.co.uk/machinery/product.asp?item=main-spindle-nut-special-7725-230

 

[samweb132]

https://www.advancedmachinery.co.uk/machinery/product.asp?item=main-spindle-nut-special-7725-230

Holy smoke thank you soo much. I'm not 100% sure that is the right nut. But it was under the wadkin 10 ags section and I'm hoping special means that it's the funny square threading. There was only 1 left in stock so I've bought it up scared that it'll be gone by the time Customer service has replied. I'm either going to be £90 down but a working table saw up or £90 down and a useless nut in hand.

 

[Fergie 307]

Fingers crossed. Cheeky bug**rs to be charging that for a nut though.

 

[Amplidyne]

Fingers crossed. Cheeky bug**rs to be charging that for a nut though.

Supply and demand. Get one made for 90 quid.
I agree it's a cheeky price though!

Good luck with it being the right part samweb132. I'd say being a LH square thread, it's "special".

 

[samweb132]

Yeh cheeky bug**rs indeed. If it is the right one I'll see if I can find I machine shop to replicate. Also If anyone is looking for a nut like this in the future shoot me an email at [email protected] I've quite literally put about 16 hours of solid research into finding out about it and attempting to source! So can share my knowledge to save a bit of time!!!

 

[Fergie 307]

Suitable sized hexagonal bar, then once you know the profile and pitch you could make them very easily on a screwcutting lathe.
Going to be expensive as a one off.
This has come up a few times, so maybe make a few and sell them and you could quickly get your money back. Depends how many people out there want one, certainly a niche market

 

[Housey210]

Holy smoke thank you soo much. I'm not 100% sure that is the right nut. But it was under the wadkin 10 ags section and I'm hoping special means that it's the funny square threading. There was only 1 left in stock so I've bought it up scared that it'll be gone by the time Customer service has replied. I'm either going to be £90 down but a working table saw up or £90 down and a useless nut in hand.

your welcome. Not what you want to hear but scrapped whole ags spindle, casing, nut flange years ago, had it on ebay for ages with no takers. My advice, use right size spanner. Seen many a nut chewed up / rounded edges by muppets using stilsons. Boot sales, often see big old spanners there. UK lathes, tony, I had some gears made up by him, may be worth a email about nuts like this as special, should you ever get stuck again. Also HPC gears, they offer a one off service and more likely, as specialist, to have the tooling unlike a local engineering outfit who may need to buy in. Wadkin did use oddball threads, my BOAS being an example, but HPC had the gear cutter. Daltons may be another to try they just may have shelves of odds, Scott+Sargeant did and let me wonder around!

 

[guineafowl21]

This would be a perfect job for John Mills (Doubleboost on YT).

Part off a bit of hexy bar, bore out and screw cut to match the spindle. He wouldn’t charge an awful lot, as it would feature in his weekly vids. He machined down a spindle moulder shaft from 1.25” to 30mm for me, and did a fine job.

He gives out his email as [email protected]. You’ll probably need to post him the shaft so he can check the fit.

 

[samweb132]

Thank you! I'll wait for this nut to arrive and then see if it fits. Will decide after whether I'm willing to risk posting my parts incase they get lost. But would be very keen to have a spare nut and to make sure nobody has to go through this much frustration for a little nut.

 

[deema]

I think a commercial retail price of £90 is very reasonable. It’s a square thread, so, I don’t believe there is an available insert to cut it, it required grinding a HSS blank to form the correct shape. Equally couldn’t find a commercially available checking jig for grinding the tool (they are available for say Acme or Trapezoidal). So there’s a fair bit of messing around to get a tool to make the nut. Next, it’s a square thread which is hard to cut, harder than say an Acme. If it’s made in a CNC you’ve a program to write and a tool to setup.
So, although it’s ‘just’ a simple nut, it’s not so simple to make one or two off.

Why Wadkin would choose an odd standard square thread for the shaft I cannot understand. After all, it carry’s no real load at all. A standard imperial if metric thread is more than adequate.

 

[Fergie 307]

I think a commercial retail price of £90 is very reasonable. It’s a square thread, so, I don’t believe there is an available insert to cut it, it required grinding a HSS blank to form the correct shape. Equally couldn’t find a commercially available checking jig for grinding the tool (they are available for say Acme or Trapezoidal). So there’s a fair bit of messing around to get a tool to make the nut. Next, it’s a square thread which is hard to cut, harder than say an Acme. If it’s made in a CNC you’ve a program to write and a tool to setup.
So, although it’s ‘just’ a simple nut, it’s not so simple to make one or two off.

Why Wadkin would choose an odd standard square thread for the shaft I cannot understand. After all, it carry’s no real load at all. A standard imperial if metric thread is more than adequate.

I agree square threads are a PITA. I did one on an eight inch machine vice a while ago and ended up making my own tool, based on careful measurement of the male thread.
Worth it to me as I picked up the vice for very little and it was in good condition apart from the nut being worn out.
But if you just want a working machine then much easier and cheaper to just replace it with something more widely available, if of course you have the means to do it. If you had to pay someone then the £90 nut might well be cheaper.
The joys of old machinery