Veritas Edge Plane

[Karl]

Pete Maddex wrote:
Hi,

I have had a play with one and I can't see the point of it on long boards (more than a few of inches) as it won't straighten edges it's just to short. I can only see it being use full for thin boards where it might be difficult to hold a plane square to the edge, but even then with the right technique (using your knuckles as a fence) it wouldn’t be needed.


Pete
Hi Pete

I think the idea is more that you have already straightened the edge down its length, then use the edging plane to ensure that the edge is perfectly perpendicular to the face. Or at least that was my understanding of it.

Cheers

Mark

But how can it be straight and angled at the same time? if the edge isn't square to the face how do you tell its straight?


Pete

Straight along its length, but not square to the reference face.

 

[TrimTheKing]

Pete Maddex wrote:
Hi,

I have had a play with one and I can't see the point of it on long boards (more than a few of inches) as it won't straighten edges it's just to short. I can only see it being use full for thin boards where it might be difficult to hold a plane square to the edge, but even then with the right technique (using your knuckles as a fence) it wouldn’t be needed.


Pete
Hi Pete

I think the idea is more that you have already straightened the edge down its length, then use the edging plane to ensure that the edge is perfectly perpendicular to the face. Or at least that was my understanding of it.

Cheers

Mark

But how can it be straight and angled at the same time? if the edge isn't square to the face how do you tell its straight?

I have over a hundered planes and I can't see the use for one. Maybe thats why it was discontinued?


Pete

Not sure I understand!

A board can easily be absolutely perfectly straight along its length (edge), but with the jointed edge at 30 degrees to the reference face. This is where this plane is useful.

Don't get me wrong, you can very easily for exactly the same job with a bench plane, and I almost always do, but the validity still stands IMO.

Cheers

Mark

 

[Mr Ed]

I'm just being facetious because I always think wandering blade sounds like a kung fu movie, in the genre of Crouching tiger; Hidden dragon.

I don't do all the marking he does, I just check the board in a few places with a small square and then use a cambered blade to take more or less off one side depending on what is needed. I usually don't even take the board out of the vice to do it, just crouch down and sight along.

In that case you've missed one of Mr C's better (and more original) tips.

The standard old practice is to put the stock of the square on the face of the board, and look "under the blade" to see the error.

But if you put the stock of a small square (a toolmakers adjustable square is ideal for this *) on the edge, the error is seen by looking DOWN and seeing how far the blade is from the face. This also means the length of the blade magnifies the error, making is easy to identify.

And no crouching down...

BugBear

(*)

http://cornishworkshop.blogspot.com/200 ... hings.html

Thats not how he does it on the DVD I've got...

Cheers, Ed

 

[Racers]

Hi, TrimTheKing

How can you plane a straight edge at an accurate constant angle? I can't, it's usually different angles down the edge often running out both ways, you need a strange shaped straight edge to hit all the places that are in the same plane, and if you could, just do it at 90 deg.

I still say that the sole is far to short to be of any use, it’s made redundant by practice and good technique, it’s a gimmick, a solution that has no problem, a waste of money, IMHO.


Pete

 

[TrimTheKing]

Hi, TrimTheKing

How can you plane a straight edge at an accurate constant angle? I can't, it's usually different angles down the edge often running out both ways, you need a strange shaped straight edge to hit all the places that are in the same plane, and if you could, just do it at 90 deg.

I still say that the sole is far to short to be of any use, it’s made redundant by practice and good technique, it’s a gimmick, a solution that has no problem, a waste of money, IMHO.


Pete

Hi Pete, okay, here's how I see it, before you even touch the edging plane you will have...

- a board (6"x1") with a reference face (the 6" bit, completely flat that you are happy with and have planed that way, either by hand or machine)

- you run this board, edge first (the 1" edge) through your jointer (or hand joint if that's your preference). You check this with a straight edge from end to end (ignore the fact that it could be <> 90degrees to the face at the moment) and see that you have a perfectly straight edge, it is straight from end to end down the 1" thickness.

- you now take the short soled edging plane, which has a 90degree fence built in to the casting, present the fence side to the reference face (6" part) of the board, press down to keep it flat and plane along the 1" edge.

You already know that the long thin edge is straight from end to end, now the edging plane ensures that it is also now square to the flat reference face. I don't see how the length of the sole would come into play here because the long thin edge is already straight, you are just squaring it up.

I don't claim to be right, but that certainly makes sense to me.

Cheers

Mark

PS - I agree that good technique makes it redundant, and it is a gimmick, but I still think I understand how it works. The If the edge is SO far out of whack to affect a straight edge then even a blind man would be able to see that by eye

 

[Karl]

Mark - that almost sums it up.

I don't have a jointer (electric). So apart from bookmatching or wandering blade, how else do you get a square edge? Pete - to say that you simply hold the plane at 90 degrees doesn't work - at least for me.

The way I see it working is to plane the edge of the board with the No7 Jointer until it is flat along its length. Then, using the edge plane, square up the edge against the reference face.

After this, you would have an edge which is 90 degrees to the face side. You then take further shavings with the No 7 (stop shavings if necessary) to ensure that the edge is flat along its length.

What I am talking about here is an easier and quicker way to joint boards (at least in theory). Philly has already confirmed that he has had success using this method.

Cheers

Karl

 

[TrimTheKing]

Anyway, I've got one (okay, okay, it was shiny and said limited edition! ) so I'll bring it along on Saturday and we can prove/disprove out the theories

Cheers

Mark

 

[Karl]

Excellent idea - i'll bring the jointer, squares and i'm sure somebody will have a camera!

Cheers

Karl

 

[Vann]

Maybe thats why it was discontinued?

Aww come on Pete, that agruement doesn't hold up. Stanley discontinued dozens (if not hundreds) of planes, and Record all bar three bench planes. That doesn't mean they're all useless. Vertitas make 4 models (although the SS one IS discontinued), LN make two, and dare I mention, Grant make one. Somebody must have found a use for them. - 'though probably as fillers in their static plane collection.

Cheers, Vann

 

[TrimTheKing]

'though probably as fillers in their static plane collection.

HEY! Now that is unfair, and just a little too close to the truth!

Cheers

Mark

 

[Vann]

'though probably as fillers in their static plane collection.

HEY! Now that is unfair, and just a little too close to the truth!

And it's the pot calling the kettle black... I bought the Grant and now the LH Veritas, and I haven't used either in anger yet.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Racers]

Hi,

I do edge jointing by the wandering blade method, using a cambered blade, I feel its the only was of getting a 90 deg straight edge. It takes time but it works, I had 6 boards stood on edge on my bench without glue all nice and flat to each other in a couple of hours, its a good thing to steep back, look at and say "I did that!"
And here they are (now with glue)

Pete

 

[woodbloke]

...and i'm sure somebody will have a camera!

Cheers

Karl

If nobody's got one...it didn't happen! :lol: :lol: - Rob

 

[bugbear]

Thats not how he does it on the DVD I've got...

Cheers, Ed

Perhaps the DVD pre-dates the technique. The technique is (IMHO) golden.

I think it's in one of his books; it was certainly in an F&C article.

BugBear

 

[graween]

Hi.

Could someone explain quickly what is this wandering blade method of Mr C ? I don't really understand how it works ? Even with the link given in the beginning of the thread. (Or give the book/dvd where this is explained, hope u don't need to buy all Mr C books to get the full plane use coverage .... many £ ..).

I either do book matching, and when for straight edges, don't really care if it's 89.9 instead od 90, as no one can see it. Nobody checks my night table top with square edge :lol: But book matching make's it fine for jointing tops.
Although I must say I did not try to put square edge on board biggers than 60cm (2 feets ?).

So I'm interested in the method.
Also I was wondering if jointer gauge where helpfull (either the veritas one or old 386 stanley style).

Thanks a lot.

 

[Racers]

Hi, graween

I'll have a go.

Problem, How to take off a different thickness shaving to bring an edge back to being square to the face.

Solution, Use a cambered blade to take a shaving with a variable thickness across its width.

Technique, Use a square to determine how far out the edge is out of square or not, mark the high points with a line only on the high side and the square parts right the way across. Now use your cambered blade to remove the lines using the centre of the blade to remove the most material from the high points, wandering across as you go down the edge picking up all the marks, check and repeat if necessary.


Pete

 

[frugal]

In that case you've missed one of Mr C's better (and more original) tips.

The standard old practice is to put the stock of the square on the face of the board, and look "under the blade" to see the error.

But if you put the stock of a small square (a toolmakers adjustable square is ideal for this *) on the edge, the error is seen by looking DOWN and seeing how far the blade is from the face. This also means the length of the blade magnifies the error, making is easy to identify.

And no crouching down...

Reading that was one of those "Doh, of course!" moments. Thanks for that tip.

 

[TrimTheKing]

'though probably as fillers in their static plane collection.

HEY! Now that is unfair, and just a little too close to the truth!

And it's the pot calling the kettle black... I bought the Grant and now the LH Veritas, and I haven't used either in anger yet.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Anonymous]

Does anybody use one when jointing boards? Perhaps flatten the length of the edge first, then use the Edge Plane to square the edge to a given reference face, then use the jointer again to take out any bumps introduced by the Edge Plane. Sounds long winded, but could be a good technique in theory.

I've always struggled a bit with the "wandering blade" method. Book matching is another option. I don't have a jointer (still working on my Wadkin restoration).

Cheers

Karl

I have the LN version and yes, on small boards I sometimes do use it before gluing up boards.

I use it most often to squareedges oin table tops, shelves etc.

 

[bugbear]

Hi, graween

I'll have a go.

Problem, How to take off a different thickness shaving to bring an edge back to being square to the face.

Solution, Use a cambered blade to take a shaving with a variable thickness across its width.

Technique, Use a square to determine how far out the edge is out of square or not, mark the high points with a line only on the high side and the square parts right the way across. Now use your cambered blade to remove the lines using the centre of the blade to remove the most material from the high points, wandering across as you go down the edge picking up all the marks, check and repeat if necessary.


Pete

If the error is quite uniform or simple, you don't need the marks - you can simply "remember".

e.g. "mainly ok, but final third a little high on the right"

BugBear