US Election November 5th

[Blackswanwood]

Green River, Mother Love Bone, Malfunkshun, Tad, Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, Brad, Screaming Trees, Mad Season; so many great bands from that part of the world.

There is a mild irony that Delaney's a fan; given so many of those bands had/have political messages that appear to be the polar opposite of his own. Still, I do occasionally see people who are disgusted to find out that Rage Against The Machine "became" political; because there's nothing in their early output that would lead you to that conclusion (yes, I'm joking on that last point).

I found it quite amusing that when Johnny Marr was asked if The Smiths would be getting back together like Oasis his response was he wouldn't be sharing a stage with Nigel Farage

 

[RobinBHM]

The VETO (why did you shout that word?) is limited. It cannot be used on everything.
You got that basic thing wrong so I wonder how much the rest stacks up.

He didn’t say the VETO can be used on everything

Your attempt at a strawman to question everything in his post has rather spectacularly failed

 

[Jacob]

I also meant to add that yes, wealth accumulation maybe should be limited but not at the expense of stifling growth and entrepreneurial talent or driving the wealth makers out of the country.

It's poverty which most stifles growth and entrepreneurial talent.
The wealth makers of the country are the people doing the work. They usually get short changed on the wealth they create.

 

[sploo]

Are the net migration targets being met. NO. Why not, cause there are persons circumventing the system and turning up outside of the set controls, hence UNCONTROLLED immigration.
Simples........

Underfunded and overloaded yes, but not uncontrolled.

Uncontrolled means no controls, and is used (untruthfully) to try to put forward the idea of hoards of immigrants streaming past open borders. This sort of falsehood is usually put forward by people such as Farage. Well, at least when he's in this country and not being surgically removed from Trump's anus anyway.

 

[RobinBHM]

In June to August 2024, the employment rate for people aged 16-64 was 75.0%. Do you call this not far off full employment? I call it 1 in 4 of working age unemployed.

People not working is not the same as unemployed?

A stay at home mum is not unemployed
A person taking early retirement is not unemployed
A teenager studying A levels is not unemployed.

Current unemployment rate is 4.3%

NAIRU is generally considered to be around 5%

NAIRU = non accelerating inflation rate of unemployment

full employment as an economy in which the unemployment rate equals the nonaccelerating inflation rate of unemployment (NAIRU)

 

[RobinBHM]

Labour like any other commodity has a value and excess availability of cheap labour means low wages inevitably for the poorest which we saw during our membership of the EU

Not true.

Immigration has little effect on wages.

The biggest effect on suppression of wages is you voting Tory


Same is true in America

 

[RobinBHM]

One the highest ranking google searches in USA after Trump won was:

“What is a tariff”


Here’s a top tip for voters: look up stuff before you vote

 

[Lons]

They voted for Brexit!

I rest my case, they believed what was promised

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Well if you can't see it I doubt you would understand any answers!
First of all, policy promises are not about paying the electorate, they are supposed to be about promising to run things effectively for the benefit of all of us.

Rubbish - pre-election promises are designed to encourage people to vote favourably - usually clearly defined groups whose votes are likely to be pivotal. May be financial (tax changes), could be policy (immigration), could be benefits increase etc.

Politicians need to balance promised inducement with a veneer of sound policy to avoid criticism - but the sole intent pre-election is to win power and influence without which they are impotent.

 

[mudman]

Not true.

Immigration has little effect on wages.

The biggest effect on suppression of wages is you voting Tory


Same is true in America

Immigration has a massive effect on wages. Due to the influx of cheap labour, via legal channels, I and many others in my skills area found ourselves out of work and the wages of the remaining jobs massively reduced and stagnated. Don't tell me it doesn't have an impact, I almost lost my house because of it as did many others. I get very angry when people like you dogmatically insist on something that goes contrary to my lived experience. I expect you and others so intent on massive immigration have never experienced the impacts but will continue to deny the reality as they believe the skewed statistics from their leftwing sources.

 

[Jacob]

Immigration has a massive effect on wages. Due to the influx of cheap labour, via legal channels, I and many others in my skills area found ourselves out of work and the wages of the remaining jobs massively reduced and stagnated. Don't tell me it doesn't have an impact, I almost lost my house because of it as did many others. I get very angry when people like you dogmatically insist on something that goes contrary to my lived experience. I expect you and others so intent on massive immigration have never experienced the impacts but will continue to deny the reality as they believe the skewed statistics from their leftwing sources.

Are the employers paying the lower wages not responsible? Immigrants would prefer higher wages too.
Maybe you should be in a union and insist on immigrants also joining it.

 

[Jacob]

Rubbish - pre-election promises are designed to encourage people to vote favourably - usually clearly defined groups whose votes are likely to be pivotal. May be financial (tax changes), could be policy (immigration), could be benefits increase etc.

Some promises are like that but more important are the general principles behind the proposals such as adding flesh to Corbyn's slogan "for the many not the few"

Politicians need to balance promised inducement with a veneer of sound policy to avoid criticism - but the sole intent pre-election is to win power and influence without which they are impotent.

If that was the sole intent they would not be worth voting for. I didn't vote Labour this time around for that very reason, and clearly looking at the low turnout, a lot of people thought the same.

 

[Jacob]

I rest my case, they believed what was promised

Actually it wasn't promised. It was an opinion poll.

 

[John Brown]

Immigration has a massive effect on wages. Due to the influx of cheap labour, via legal channels, I and many others in my skills area found ourselves out of work and the wages of the remaining jobs massively reduced and stagnated. Don't tell me it doesn't have an impact, I almost lost my house because of it as did many others. I get very angry when people like you dogmatically insist on something that goes contrary to my lived experience. I expect you and others so intent on massive immigration have never experienced the impacts but will continue to deny the reality as they believe the skewed statistics from their leftwing sources.

Somebody will do your job for less money. Isn't that just free market economics?
It happened to me too, as a freelance firmware developer, I couldn't compete in the global market against people who'd work for a tenth of my expectations. That's life. You can get angry, or you can accept that it's inevitable. Luckily I paid off the mortgages while I could, and never assumed that the good times would last forever.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

USA and U.K. have high levels of wealth inequality.

Many other Western economies like Germany, France, Sweden, Denmark etc have lower levels of wealth inequality and higher standards of living for the majority.


So your argument that fairer wealth distribution doesn’t achieve anything, is not true.

Donald Trump is going to increase wealth inequality, so ordinary working people will be worse off

Donald Trump will cut public services…..who benefits from public services: ordinary working citizens

Most analyses support your contention that wealth inequality is higher in the UK than most other comparable countries - albeit the differences with major European countries is not large.

The assertion similar economies have higher standards of living is questionable. Upon which data you are basing your conclusion - standard of living is far more than GDP per capita or similar.

Two fairly thoughtful analyses - OECD and Legatum come up with different conclusions.

OECD puts the UK above Italy, Spain, France, Belgium and Austria - but below Germany.

Legatum puts the UK at No 12 ahead of Canada, Austria, Australia, France, Spain, Portugal.

I suspect the rankings could shift depending on the weights attached to the different aspects of standard of living of which ~a dozen are identified.

Suggesting a link between wealth inequality and standard of living seems lacking foundation. Is it simply that it fits your preconceived notion of what you think should be right.

 

[Sachakins]

Underfunded and overloaded yes, but not uncontrolled.

Uncontrolled means no controls, and is used (untruthfully) to try to put forward the idea of hoards of immigrants streaming past open borders. This sort of falsehood is usually put forward by people such as Farage. Well, at least when he's in this country and not being surgically removed from Trump's anus anyway.

Have they got control of the migration across the channel. NO, can they do something about it, Yes, why don't they, because the whingers bleat on about the human rights of people who clearly have no right to be here.So it is uncontrolled,simply by the nature that others have control, like the HR lawyers, do gooders and foreign governments, who see us as a dumping ground and allow unfettered passage from their shores to ours.
Pray tell, how is France a country that is unsafe and a risk to their life and limb and liberty?
You fail to see the blindingly obvious, the plethora of persons crossing the channel is the way the French use in order to ease their own immigration issues by failing to enforce border control that we pay the several 100 million euros to do.
Just another example of a foreign state taking the water out of our nation.........

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Actually it wasn't promised. It was an opinion poll.

If it was intended only to be an opinion poll there was no earthly point in holding it.

 

[Delaney]

Such as? Just curious.

Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Nirvana.

 

[sploo]

Have they got control of the migration across the channel. NO, can they do something about it, Yes, why don't they, because the whingers bleat on about the human rights of people who clearly have no right to be here.So it is uncontrolled,simply by the nature that others have control, like the HR lawyers, do gooders and foreign governments, who see us as a dumping ground and allow unfettered passage from their shores to ours.
Pray tell, how is France a country that is unsafe and a risk to their life and limb and liberty?
You fail to see the blindingly obvious, the plethora of persons crossing the channel is the way the French use in order to ease their own immigration issues by failing to enforce border control that we pay the several 100 million euros to do.
Just another example of a foreign state taking the water out of our nation.........

Tell you what; hop across to France and try to get back into the country via the same routes used by immigrants. You may well achieve it, but you'll likely find it's not "uncontrolled".

 

[sploo]

Somebody will do your job for less money. Isn't that just free market economics?
It happened to me too, as a freelance firmware developer, I couldn't compete in the global market against people who'd work for a tenth of my expectations. That's life. You can get angry, or you can accept that it's inevitable. Luckily I paid off the mortgages while I could, and never assumed that the good times would last forever.

As someone in that industry, I've generally found the offshore groups who will do your job for a tenth of the price create code that's well less than a tenth of the quality. Hard to get those who control the purse strings to understand that sadly.