US Election November 5th

[AJB Temple]

It's interesting that Brexit continues to be debated. Often by people who voted for it. My entire family, except me, voted to leave the EU. It did not occur to her that her daughter in law is an EU native and that her grandchildren had EU passports and that in voting this way she and her sisters were likely to alienate them a bit.

She voted leave because she wanted to prevent immigration. At that time she had never met an illegal immigrant or asylum seeker as some like to call them. She lives a couple of miles away from a large hotel in Warwickshire that is now full of them. The locals say they are mostly young men who have inexplicably lost their children and women folk, but not their mobile phones or drugs. They now hand around all day in the town, often begging and apparently harassing people. I don't really know because I hardly ever go there.

My mother and her sisters and their husbands and children are very upset that this has happened. My uncle is a part tenant / part owned farmer. He voted for Brexit as well, yet was surprised when his supply of cheap foreign labour was cut off, and remains resentful.

Many people voted for emotive reasons. They blamed the tories for Brexit and for immigration and my family voted for labour this time (some were previously liberals). In my last visit I endured them telling me how disappointed they are in Starmer and co. Two of my aunt's grandchildren have been told their jobs will be made redundant when the employers NIC extra tax comes into effect. One of my Aunt's husbands has already been made redundant as his firm is "tightening it's belts" openly citing anti employer policies. Employers in some areas are using it as an opportunity to cull some staff.

I don't debate it: just say well you vote for things that you don't bother to research and surely you are old enough to know that politicians make promises in return for votes. This gives them a 5 year guaranteed good job with no real accountability for that length of time, after which they will make some more promises to try to con you again.

 

[mudman]

How is "uncontrolled immigration" a statement of fact, when we do have controls on immigration? It might not be at a level you'd like, but "uncontrolled" means no controls, no barriers; a complete open door. It would mean there was no refusal of immigration, and no repatriation - both of which do happen.


I think you meant "the damage the pandemic caused to the economy masked the financial losses from leaving".

We could control it, our leaders have chosen for a long time to not control aspects of it and to make other aspects so lax that the overall effect is uncontrolled migration.

 

[Yorkieguy]

Please stick to the topic. Last warning.

This last year or so, more than I can recall over the years, this 'Off Topic' General Chat forum has been characterised by one political thread after another, which - whatever the title - drift all over the place from Trump to Putin (who, it is claimed is a 'loser'), to Starmer, America, Russia, Ukraine, Israel, Brexit, BoJo etc. Every now and then a new belligerent forum member pops up in combative 'Keyboard Warrior mode' to give us the benefit of their instant erudition, treating anyone who holds contrary views from theirs rather like a headmaster admonishing a pupil for submitting poor homework.

When the moderators decide that a topic is well past it's original title (UK General Election, US Election etc), and the thread is locked, undeterred, the 'usual suspects' will pop with a new thread with similar content, and on it goes. I'll admit to participating in such threads myself, but not any more because a common feature is that many participants are quite unable to disagree with contrary views to theirs without being disagreeable to fellow forum members. There seems to be little attempt at 'self-moderation'. From time to time, moderators, who- it seems to me - in their desire for the forum to not seem like a 'house of correction', cut people rather more slack than they have any right to expect, are themselves derided with disrespectful comments. In other moderated forums I take part in, that would be an instant ban.

I dare say few have bothered to read the 'Global Forum Rules'.

If not, maybe they should do. If they have, and choose to disregard them, that's a further aggravating feature. Of course, those who bother to read this will doubtless say: 'well if you don't like it, just stick your nose out if it'. True, posts are not 'force-fed' - they're self-selected, and as free spirits, we can ignore certain thread and certain individuals. Personally, I've decided that I'm not going to invite anyone onto my screen who I wouldn't invite in my home.

Just my view, but it seems to me that so many threads in this 'Off Topic General Chat' forum are as 'triple-refined weapons-grade controversial' as could possible be, and hence, belong behind the 'paywall' in the closed 'Off Topic Controversial' section.

Some may say they're 'exercising rights to freedom of expression', but such rights aren't without limitation, and along with rights go responsibilities. It seems to me that those limitations and responsibilities should at least be to comply with both the spirit and letter of the forum 'Global Rules'. Here's a clip:

Quote:

6.) Political and Religious discussion.

• (6a.) Politics.
  Over the years there has been one subject that has caused heated debates on the forums and that is politics. For that reason political discussion, in particular party political comments in a thread are not regarded as acceptable, please remember this is a woodworking forum after all. We do however understand that politics effects everyday life which is why some topics may be allowed depending on the circumstances.

(2.) No offensive material

UKW expects members to behave respectfully and not to personally attack or be abusive to other members. ‘Offensive’ is a pretty broad term, but we think you know what we mean. This includes any messages or material that is ethnically, racially, religiously, or sexually offensive, insulting, or demeaning. It also includes messages that are harassing or threatening to others. As with most forums our software has a "bad language" filter. Any attempt to by-pass the filter will not be tolerated.

We intend to maintain a friendly forum where members respect each other regardless of skill level, opinions, or personal feelings. That means no name calling, sneering, impugning a person's integrity, or openly and purposely attempting to damage a person's reputation online. The Internet is a funny place; it's easy to type out a comment, click ‘Post’ then sit back and let the fur fly. There are plenty of other places on the Internet where you can do this, but it won't be tolerated here. Members deemed to be guilty of such action by the moderator team will have their accounts de-activated without notice.

When you are posting something, ask yourself if you would say that to a person if you were in their presence. Better still; ask yourself if you would like someone to say that to you. If you have a problem with someone, send a personal message to one of the moderators.

End quote.

I don't think anything will change, but many threads and posts in this section are very much at a variance with the above.

Not an issue for me any more - I'll Segway to other sections of the forum, where the most controversial topic is 'sharpening'.

Regards,

David.
Duty windbag.

 

[sploo]

We could control it, our leaders have chosen for a long time to not control aspects of it and to make other aspects so lax that the overall effect is uncontrolled migration.

So literally what I said - not uncontrolled, just controlled less than you'd like.

Whether that's a good or bad thing is perfectly open to debate; those that benefit from cheap labour would be happy, those that feel they've lost jobs to that cheap labour would not.

 

[Jacob]

This last year or so, more than I can recall over the years, this 'Off Topic' General Chat forum has been characterised by one political thread after another, which - whatever the title - drift all over the place from Trump to Putin (who, it is claimed is a 'loser'), to Starmer, America, Russia, Ukraine, Israel, Brexit, BoJo etc. Every now and then a new belligerent forum member pops up in combative 'Keyboard Warrior mode' to give us the benefit of their instant erudition, treating anyone who holds contrary views from theirs rather like a headmaster admonishing a pupil for submitting poor homework.

When the moderators decide that a topic is well past it's original title (UK General Election, US Election etc), and the thread is locked, undeterred, the 'usual suspects' will pop with a new thread with similar content, and on it goes. I'll admit to participating in such threads myself, but not any more because a common feature is that many participants are quite unable to disagree with contrary views to theirs without being disagreeable to fellow forum members. There seems to be little attempt at 'self-moderation'. From time to time, moderators, who- it seems to me - in their desire for the forum to not seem like a 'house of correction', cut people rather more slack than they have any right to expect, are themselves derided with disrespectful comments. In other moderated forums I take part in, that would be an instant ban.

I dare say few have bothered to read the 'Global Forum Rules'.

If not, maybe they should do. If they have, and choose to disregard them, that's a further aggravating feature. Of course, those who bother to read this will doubtless say: 'well if you don't like it, just stick your nose out if it'. True, posts are not 'force-fed' - they're self-selected, and as free spirits, we can ignore certain thread and certain individuals. Personally, I've decided that I'm not going to invite anyone onto my screen who I wouldn't invite in my home.

Just my view, but it seems to me that so many threads in this 'Off Topic General Chat' forum are as 'triple-refined weapons-grade controversial' as could possible be, and hence, belong behind the 'paywall' in the closed 'Off Topic Controversial' section.

Some may say they're 'exercising rights to freedom of expression', but such rights aren't without limitation, and along with rights go responsibilities. It seems to me that those limitations and responsibilities should at least be to comply with both the spirit and letter of the forum 'Global Rules'. Here's a clip:

Quote:

6.) Political and Religious discussion.

• (6a.) Politics.
  Over the years there has been one subject that has caused heated debates on the forums and that is politics. For that reason political discussion, in particular party political comments in a thread are not regarded as acceptable, please remember this is a woodworking forum after all. We do however understand that politics effects everyday life which is why some topics may be allowed depending on the circumstances.

(2.) No offensive material

UKW expects members to behave respectfully and not to personally attack or be abusive to other members. ‘Offensive’ is a pretty broad term, but we think you know what we mean. This includes any messages or material that is ethnically, racially, religiously, or sexually offensive, insulting, or demeaning. It also includes messages that are harassing or threatening to others. As with most forums our software has a "bad language" filter. Any attempt to by-pass the filter will not be tolerated.

We intend to maintain a friendly forum where members respect each other regardless of skill level, opinions, or personal feelings. That means no name calling, sneering, impugning a person's integrity, or openly and purposely attempting to damage a person's reputation online. The Internet is a funny place; it's easy to type out a comment, click ‘Post’ then sit back and let the fur fly. There are plenty of other places on the Internet where you can do this, but it won't be tolerated here. Members deemed to be guilty of such action by the moderator team will have their accounts de-activated without notice.

When you are posting something, ask yourself if you would say that to a person if you were in their presence. Better still; ask yourself if you would like someone to say that to you. If you have a problem with someone, send a personal message to one of the moderators.

End quote.

I don't think anything will change, but many threads and posts in this section are very much at a variance with the above.

Not an issue for me any more - I'll Segway to other sections of the forum, where the most controversial topic is 'sharpening'.

Regards,

David.
Duty windbag.

TBH I think it is a very healthy process and these things need to be discussed. It helps get oneself better informed for a start, which is what I appreciate most.
The common notion that we should not talk about "sex politics and religion" is seriously antidemocratic, not least when the mainstream media bombards us constantly with little else. Should we only take note of the media?
Problem for the mods of course, but they seem to be doing OK.
Should be an earner for the "owners" too - think of the traffic it generates!

 

[mudman]

So literally what I said - not uncontrolled, just controlled less than you'd like.

Whether that's a good or bad thing is perfectly open to debate; those that benefit from cheap labour would be happy, those that feel they've lost jobs to that cheap labour would not.

I think uncontrolled is probably a poor term to use as you are correct, we do have some controls that in my view should be applied more rigorously. Inbound migration, both legal and illegal, is too high and has been too high for a long time. The question is why don't successive governments apply the controls that exist more rigorously or if it there are not sufficient controls, why are more not implemented? The population is increasing both through inbound migration and the normal thing of more births than deaths and our infrastructure, due to both lack of investment and these extra numbers, doesn't seem to be able to cope.

 

[Delaney]

I'm unclear what you are predicting here - do you think the Democrats are going to call for violence or are you talking about those whodunit agree with what Labour are doing?

I have no reason to believe either will happen. What am I missing?

Yes the democrats are going to call for violence.
They will call it ‘resistance’ and will instruct their DA’s and AG’s to not charge or arrest rioters. They will re-run the play book from 2016 were Antifa/blm activists, were in effect the foot soldiers of the democratic party. Kamala Harris even encouraging them at the time with ‘bail funding’.
Remember the ‘mostly peaceful protests’?

America is on tbe brink of civil war, with sociopaths like Newsom declaring they will not co-operate with Trumps Whitehouse.
Other democratic states have made the same declaration.
Some might even liken it to an insurrection.

Make no mistake, the only choice the left has is to make the next 4 years as chaotic and unpleasant as possible. There will be constant rioting, violence and disorder,
In order to associate it to Trump.
That’s how they got him out last time.
they caused chaos and then said ‘Aren’t you tired of all the chaos’?
Total sociopathy but effective.

 

[RobinBHM]

I realise this thread is about Trump not U.K.

However the weaponisation of immigrants is exactly the same.

Trump voters: “they are flooding in, we have uncontrolled immigration, we don’t know who they are, many are criminals, they are overloading our services”

Tory / Reform voters: “they are flooding in, we have uncontrolled immigration, we don’t know who they are, many are criminals, they are overloading our services”


The irony is USA and U.K. have high wealth inequality……it’s the very rich that are causing the problem, not immigrants.

 

[RobinBHM]

I think uncontrolled is probably a poor term to use as you are correct, we do have some controls that in my view should be applied more rigorously. Inbound migration, both legal and illegal, is too high and has been too high for a long time. The question is why don't successive governments apply the controls that exist more rigorously or if it there are not sufficient controls, why are more not implemented? The population is increasing both through inbound migration and the normal thing of more births than deaths and our infrastructure, due to both lack of investment and these extra numbers, doesn't seem to be able to cope.

Successive governments don’t deal with it because our economy is structured to need high immigration to grow it.


Have a think about this: U.K. unemployment is very low, we are not far off full employment, so why do you argue immigration is a bad thing…..if it led to higher unemployment your argument would have some validity

 

[Spectric]

As a human being he is egotistical and arrogant - both qualities I am less than fond of, but he has been hugely successful in that which he has achieved

Perhaps it is those things you are not fond of that is the reason behind his success.

Do you think influencing the election outcome with $1,000,000 handouts to voters is a good way to go about things? I don’t.

This is essentially nothing more than buying votes, on the other hand given the number of voters then youwould need to spend an awful lot to actually make a difference. I think the influence might come from the simple fact that this guy is willing to spend a million to get a vote so therefore if he thinks Trump is worth it then who am I to disagree !

I would suggest the one thing we should all agree on is that we cannot say that America had much say on brexit and just like brexit which is past tense and done then we need to just accept Trump is here for the next few years along with our bunch of clowns so not really worth creating fricton over and so think of something more positive like who is going to the Harrogate woodworking show ?

 

[mudman]

I realise this thread is about Trump not U.K.

However the weaponisation of immigrants is exactly the same.

Trump voters: “they are flooding in, we have uncontrolled immigration, we don’t know who they are, many are criminals, they are overloading our services”

Tory / Reform voters: “they are flooding in, we have uncontrolled immigration, we don’t know who they are, many are criminals, they are overloading our services”


The irony is USA and U.K. have high wealth inequality……it’s the very rich that are causing the problem, not immigrants.

You make it far too simplistic. It's always 'the rich' that are causing it. I will concede Sploo's point that immigration is not uncontrolled, but it is not controlled as tightly as it should be. There are many influences at play that seem to encourage it. There are those of the progressive left that want to believe that all these young men are fleeing repression and should be given succor, and so want to welcome them with open arms. Then there are those that wanted to see the European dream realised and opened the borders to our neighbours. Then there are the business owners that want to make use of cheap labour from abroad, from imported hop pickers to more highly skilled roles such as IT. The results are manifold, including lower skilled job wages being depressed and held down due to the high availability of workers, higher skilled roles see jobs lost or having to retrain into other areas and also see wages depressed (I was in the last category). People are no longer willing to work for the depressed wages as living costs rise and so remain on benefits. The end result is that the wage bills stay the same, tax receipts don't rise as they should all leading to happy business owners, rich people getting richer and taxes having to be raised to cover the costs of a rising population.

 

[sploo]

Yes the democrats are going to call for violence.
They will call it ‘resistance’ and will instruct their DA’s and AG’s to not charge or arrest rioters. They will re-run the play book from 2016 were Antifa/blm activists, were in effect the foot soldiers of the democratic party. Kamala Harris even encouraging them at the time with ‘bail funding’.
Remember the ‘mostly peaceful protests’?

America is on tbe brink of civil war, with sociopaths like Newsom declaring they will not co-operate with Trumps Whitehouse.
Other democratic states have made the same declaration.
Some might even liken it to an insurrection.

Make no mistake, the only choice the left has is to make the next 4 years as chaotic and unpleasant as possible. There will be constant rioting, violence and disorder,
In order to associate it to Trump.
That’s how they got him out last time.
they caused chaos and then said ‘Aren’t you tired of all the chaos’?
Total sociopathy but effective.

I think Trump does just fine in creating chaos himself. Indeed he has a long history of that; way before he got anywhere near the presidency.

In terms of rioting, I still don't remember those violent riots of 'Dems' at the Capitol.

 

[Blackswanwood]

Yes the democrats are going to call for violence.
They will call it ‘resistance’ and will instruct their DA’s and AG’s to not charge or arrest rioters. They will re-run the play book from 2016 were Antifa/blm activists, were in effect the foot soldiers of the democratic party. Kamala Harris even encouraging them at the time with ‘bail funding’.
Remember the ‘mostly peaceful protests’?

America is on tbe brink of civil war, with sociopaths like Newsom declaring they will not co-operate with Trumps Whitehouse.
Other democratic states have made the same declaration.
Some might even liken it to an insurrection.

Make no mistake, the only choice the left has is to make the next 4 years as chaotic and unpleasant as possible. There will be constant rioting, violence and disorder,
In order to associate it to Trump.
That’s how they got him out last time.
they caused chaos and then said ‘Aren’t you tired of all the chaos’?
Total sociopathy but effective.

I had originally forgotten about the anti-Trump protests when he first got in but was reminded of them by an earlier post. It's obviously not a competition but they were pretty insignificant when compared to 2020.

There is nothing that I have seen that suggests a violent intent from the Democrats. If anything I'd say they've accepted they lost. The US has of course a complex legal system that both sides use to stymy each other. I find the "two party tribal politics" that we have in the UK and US quite tiresome - the things you allege against the Democrats could equally be applied to the Republicans whilst in opposition.

Hopefully you are wrong - not least as I fly out to Seattle at the end of the month!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Have a think about this: U.K. unemployment is very low, we are not far off full employment ...

Labour have said they aim to get 2,000,000 off benefits and back to work. By saying that, of course they're admitting there are 2,000,000 on benefits that shouldn't be.

 

[mudman]

Successive governments don’t deal with it because our economy is structured to need high immigration to grow it.


Have a think about this: U.K. unemployment is very low, we are not far off full employment, so why do you argue immigration is a bad thing…..if it led to higher unemployment your argument would have some validity

In June to August 2024, the employment rate for people aged 16-64 was 75.0%. Do you call this not far off full employment? I call it 1 in 4 of working age unemployed.

 

[sploo]

You make it far too simplistic. It's always 'the rich' that are causing it. I will concede Sploo's point that immigration is not uncontrolled, but it is not controlled as tightly as it should be. There are many influences at play that seem to encourage it. There are those of the progressive left that want to believe that all these young men are fleeing repression and should be given succor, and so want to welcome them with open arms. Then there are those that wanted to see the European dream realised and opened the borders to our neighbours. Then there are the business owners that want to make use of cheap labour from abroad, from imported hop pickers to more highly skilled roles such as IT. The results are manifold, including lower skilled job wages being depressed and held down due to the high availability of workers, higher skilled roles see jobs lost or having to retrain into other areas and also see wages depressed (I was in the last category). People are no longer willing to work for the depressed wages as living costs rise and so remain on benefits. The end result is that the wage bills stay the same, tax receipts don't rise as they should all leading to happy business owners, rich people getting richer and taxes having to be raised to cover the costs of a rising population.

It is indeed a complex situation; businesses benefit from access to cheap labour. But then you could argue that screws over local workers. But then businesses point out that locals refuse to do many menial jobs at the rates they are able to pay. But then, does that mean the businesses are being greedy, or just that the market won't pay enough for the end product?

Regardless, in future decades I highly suspect that many "blue collar" jobs will be performed by machinery; meaning all such workers lose out. We may then have a new generation of a Luddite movement (protests against automation, rather than immigration).

It's perhaps an easier decision with skilled roles; where it does make sense to be open to immigration if you're struggling to get local staff.

 

[Blackswanwood]

This last year or so, more than I can recall over the years, this 'Off Topic' General Chat forum has been characterised by one political thread after another, which - whatever the title - drift all over the place from Trump to Putin (who, it is claimed is a 'loser'), to Starmer, America, Russia, Ukraine, Israel, Brexit, BoJo etc. Every now and then a new belligerent forum member pops up in combative 'Keyboard Warrior mode' to give us the benefit of their instant erudition, treating anyone who holds contrary views from theirs rather like a headmaster admonishing a pupil for submitting poor homework.

When the moderators decide that a topic is well past it's original title (UK General Election, US Election etc), and the thread is locked, undeterred, the 'usual suspects' will pop with a new thread with similar content, and on it goes. I'll admit to participating in such threads myself, but not any more because a common feature is that many participants are quite unable to disagree with contrary views to theirs without being disagreeable to fellow forum members. There seems to be little attempt at 'self-moderation'. From time to time, moderators, who- it seems to me - in their desire for the forum to not seem like a 'house of correction', cut people rather more slack than they have any right to expect, are themselves derided with disrespectful comments. In other moderated forums I take part in, that would be an instant ban.

I dare say few have bothered to read the 'Global Forum Rules'.

If not, maybe they should do. If they have, and choose to disregard them, that's a further aggravating feature. Of course, those who bother to read this will doubtless say: 'well if you don't like it, just stick your nose out if it'. True, posts are not 'force-fed' - they're self-selected, and as free spirits, we can ignore certain thread and certain individuals. Personally, I've decided that I'm not going to invite anyone onto my screen who I wouldn't invite in my home.

Just my view, but it seems to me that so many threads in this 'Off Topic General Chat' forum are as 'triple-refined weapons-grade controversial' as could possible be, and hence, belong behind the 'paywall' in the closed 'Off Topic Controversial' section.

Some may say they're 'exercising rights to freedom of expression', but such rights aren't without limitation, and along with rights go responsibilities. It seems to me that those limitations and responsibilities should at least be to comply with both the spirit and letter of the forum 'Global Rules'. Here's a clip:

Quote:

6.) Political and Religious discussion.

• (6a.) Politics.
  Over the years there has been one subject that has caused heated debates on the forums and that is politics. For that reason political discussion, in particular party political comments in a thread are not regarded as acceptable, please remember this is a woodworking forum after all. We do however understand that politics effects everyday life which is why some topics may be allowed depending on the circumstances.

(2.) No offensive material

UKW expects members to behave respectfully and not to personally attack or be abusive to other members. ‘Offensive’ is a pretty broad term, but we think you know what we mean. This includes any messages or material that is ethnically, racially, religiously, or sexually offensive, insulting, or demeaning. It also includes messages that are harassing or threatening to others. As with most forums our software has a "bad language" filter. Any attempt to by-pass the filter will not be tolerated.

We intend to maintain a friendly forum where members respect each other regardless of skill level, opinions, or personal feelings. That means no name calling, sneering, impugning a person's integrity, or openly and purposely attempting to damage a person's reputation online. The Internet is a funny place; it's easy to type out a comment, click ‘Post’ then sit back and let the fur fly. There are plenty of other places on the Internet where you can do this, but it won't be tolerated here. Members deemed to be guilty of such action by the moderator team will have their accounts de-activated without notice.

When you are posting something, ask yourself if you would say that to a person if you were in their presence. Better still; ask yourself if you would like someone to say that to you. If you have a problem with someone, send a personal message to one of the moderators.

End quote.

I don't think anything will change, but many threads and posts in this section are very much at a variance with the above.

Not an issue for me any more - I'll Segway to other sections of the forum, where the most controversial topic is 'sharpening'.

Regards,

David.
Duty windbag.

Well said David. It's a shame the forum software cannot preclude participation in one of these threads without an equal contribution on woodworking!

 

[Blackswanwood]

so think of something more positive like who is going to the Harrogate woodworking show ?

I am!

 

[Delaney]

I had originally forgotten about the anti-Trump protests when he first got in but was reminded of them by an earlier post. It's obviously not a competition but they were pretty insignificant when compared to 2020.

There is nothing that I have seen that suggests a violent intent from the Democrats. If anything I'd say they've accepted they lost. The US has of course a complex legal system that both sides use to stymy each other. I find the "two party tribal politics" that we have in the UK and US quite tiresome - the things you allege against the Democrats could equally be applied to the Republicans whilst in opposition.

Hopefully you are wrong - not least as I fly out to Seattle at the end of the month!

To be clear I was referring to the start of the ‘resistance’ in 2016 which built over the next 3 years to its peak in 2019/2020
We are going to see a return of this and more shortly.

The left have not accepted they have lost. If you pay attention to thiet legacy media, you can clearly see them fomenting unrest.
As that mad women Rachel Maddow, claims “the left are now pirates; be a pirate”.
There will be no calls to violence, there will be calls for ‘resistance’ which of course will be the same thing.
Pay attention to how often you start to hear this word used on MSNBC, CNN etc..
They are ramping up.

Hope you enjoy Seattle. Most of my fav bands came from that area.
‘Singles’ is a good movie from there.

 

[Blackswanwood]

To be clear I was referring to the start of the ‘resistance’ in 2016 which built over the next 3 years to its peak in 2019/2020
We are going to see a return of this and more shortly.

The left have not accepted they have lost. If you pay attention to thiet legacy media, you can clearly see them fomenting unrest.
As that mad women Rachel Maddow, claims “the left are now pirates; be a pirate”.
Fhere will be no calls to violence, there will be calls for ‘resistance’.
Pay attention to how often you start to hear this word used on MSNBC, CNN etc..
They are ramping up.

I'm a bit more optimistic than you