US Election November 5th

[AJB Temple]

Please avoid ad hominem deflections

I simply made a reasoned appraisal of a Trump speech, that’s not a “hectoring lefty lecture”.

If you disagree with my appraisal, you are welcome to provide a counter argument

Why? I think you personally are extremely and unreasonably biased and intolerant of other views. Generally you do adopt a hectoring approach and I just call it out sometimes.

You think your left biased descriptions are a reasoned appraisal! I disagree, you are simply derogatory about American voters because you think you know best.

 

[Jacob]

Why? I think you personally are extremely and unreasonably biased and intolerant of other views. Generally you do adopt a hectoring approach and I just call it out sometimes.

erewego again! Another (tory?) saying that someone who disagrees with him is just biased and intolerant! Heroically "calling it out"!

You think your left biased descriptions are a reasoned appraisal! I disagree, you are simply derogatory about American voters because you think you know best.

and throwing toys out of his pram!

 

[RobinBHM]

You think insulting 72 million American voters will help?

Trump despises MAGAs, he calls them basement dwellers and the poorly educated.

 

[Croolis]

You're absolutely right. But I spent my working life trying to help people think clearly, examine evidence, justify arguments, and chase the truth in so far as it can be found. Seems like a waste of effort when it turns out you can just make carp up, exploit people's weaknesses, lie to them and 'succeed'. But yes, back to the workshop it is... And thanks, Fergie.

Yup. Before about a year ago, I had basically stopped watching the news and current affairs. People at work would talk about something that had gone on and if they asked me for an opinion, they'd be "have you been living under a rock Croolis?"

I'm going back to that. I started listening to political podcasts and the like over the last 12 months (election year) and I can't say it's made me happier. Tories are out and I'm still listening to the same old sh*t from miserable old right wing gammons on forums, trying to make out we're worse off already. We're in the post-truth society now, and you idiots actually think it's the truth being revealed. Good luck with that.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Have you listened to one of his speeches? I note you’ve answered that

I have, I took one for the team.

His speeches are rambling, incoherent. They are inflammatory, he trades on fear and hate.

It is not insulting to people who voted for him to point out facts.

On a purely personal level I find Trump a repulsive individual with manifold faults. Harris seems a nicer person without the unpleasant baggage and conforms more to political norms.

The US public voted for him because they believe he will be far more effective in delivering what they and/or the country want.

His capacity for action rests upon his weaknesses - "black and white" simplicity, short attention span, egocentric and bullying behaviour. He is clearly a very effective communicator.

It is both arrogant and incorrect to regard his supporters as stupid (or worse). Given the breadth of his support it is clear many are intelligent, successful, professional folk.

In the UK Reform won 15% of the vote due mainly to one man - Farage. One policy - immigration (Reform supporters may take issue with this). Many would happily vote again for Boris despite his "colourful" past. They both have the capacity to communicate 9/10.

Politicians sit at or close to the bottom of trusted professions league table for a reason - the attraction of "maverick" politicians (clear, simplistic, popular) may be a response.

 

[ey_tony]

Thick boy and liar Starmer plus his sycophant followers now have a real problem on their hands. They put their money on yet another political donkey to win but now that Trump has won a second term which is truly remarkable in itself and which the bone heads never expected, it leaves the UK in a really precarious trading position with the USA after this stupid bunch of left wing clowns were openly hostile to Trump on the run up to the election.

Seriously what kind of hard of thinking leader would be openly hostile to a potential future leader of the free world by sanctioning the use of 100 left wing activists to campaign on behalf of Trump's opposition and then has the audacity to ring him and congratulate him?
Only an individual with a truly narcissistic moronic mentality would sanction or support such behaviour in the first place which quite frankly is reminiscent of the Cuban or Russian communist political interference of yesteryear.

I often say you couldn't make it up but where left wingers are concerned you can't. Led by donkeys, followed by donkeys it says it all about them and their left wing mentality and because of their hard of thinking bigotry the UK is now likely to suffer as a consequence.
...and people wonder why I dislike left wing mindset...

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

Thick boy and liar Starmer plus his sycophant followers now have a real problem on their hands. They put their money on yet another political donkey to win but now that Trump has won a second term which is truly remarkable in itself and which the bone heads never expected, it leaves the UK in a really precarious trading position with the USA after this stupid bunch of left wing clowns were openly hostile to Trump on the run up to the election.

Seriously what kind of hard of thinking leader would be open hostile to a potential leader of the free world by sanctioning the use of 100 left wing activists to campaign on behalf of Trump's opposition and then has the audacity to ring him and congratulate him?
Only an individual with a truly moronic mentality would sanction or support such behaviour in the first place which quite frankly is reminiscent of the Cuban or Russian communist political interference of yesteryear.

I often say you couldn't make it up but where left wingers are concerned you can't. Led by donkeys, followed by donkeys it says it all about them and their left wing mentality and because of their hard of thinking bigotry the UK is now likely to suffer as a consequence.
...and people wonder why I dislike left wing mindset...

Many sources from both sides of the Atlantic disagree with you.

Here is but one that I believe puts it rather well:

The Hill


Additionally, is your overall awareness limited and your hostility biased? When you ask "what kind of hard of thinking leader would be open [sic] hostile to a potential leader of the free world", did you not realise that members of *other political parties* travelled to USA to openly campaign for Trump and were "openly hostile to a potential leader of the free world"?

 

[Chris152]

On Lammy's comments on trump, it's worth remembering those of Johnson in 2015 (article published in 2016):

Last year, Mr Johnson branded the President-elect “unfit” to lead America and even of “playing the game of the terrorists”.
[...]
On the Muslim ban, Mr Johnson said: “I think Donald Trump is clearly out of his mind if he thinks that’s a sensible way to proceed, to ban people going to the United States in that way, or to any country.
“What he’s doing is playing the game of the terrorists and those who seek to divide us. That’s exactly the kind of reaction they hope to produce.”
And on the claim of “no go areas” [in London], he added: “I think he’s betraying a quite stupefying ignorance that makes him frankly unfit to hold the office of President of the United States.
“I would invite him to come and see the whole of London and take him round the city – except I wouldn’t want to expose any Londoners to any unnecessary risk of meeting Donald Trump.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...se-comments-uk-us-election-2016-a7407211.html

 

[RobinBHM]

hard of thinking bigotry

Tony you think that right wing is correct and left wing is wrong…..without any reasoning, evidence or reasoning.

Tony, why are you so unaware that your post, all of your posts are mindless bigotry.


Tony, please could you read your post to your self and think carefully about why you are doing exactly what you accuse others of.


Tony, the benefit of debates is to learn from others and question your own beliefs……..please try to do this.

 

[Blackswanwood]

On Lammy's comments on trump, it's worth remembering those of Johnson in 2015 (article published in 2016):

Last year, Mr Johnson branded the President-elect “unfit” to lead America and even of “playing the game of the terrorists”.
[...]
On the Muslim ban, Mr Johnson said: “I think Donald Trump is clearly out of his mind if he thinks that’s a sensible way to proceed, to ban people going to the United States in that way, or to any country.
“What he’s doing is playing the game of the terrorists and those who seek to divide us. That’s exactly the kind of reaction they hope to produce.”
And on the claim of “no go areas” [in London], he added: “I think he’s betraying a quite stupefying ignorance that makes him frankly unfit to hold the office of President of the United States.
“I would invite him to come and see the whole of London and take him round the city – except I wouldn’t want to expose any Londoners to any unnecessary risk of meeting Donald Trump.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...se-comments-uk-us-election-2016-a7407211.html

I’d forgotten about that.

If Trump constrained himself by not dealing with people who don’t hold him in high regard (and have said so) he’d not be where he is today.

 

[Blackswanwood]

Much as I think the man is dangerous I have a begrudging respect for Musk.

He bought Twitter for an amount everyone thought was too much. He’s just used it to get himself into one of the most influential positions in one of the most lucrative consumer markets in the world. His investment has arguably paid off. Was it a strategic play or luck that rescued his play to own a big slice of social media? We’ll probably never really know.

One of his big bug bears has been an inability to move forward on driverless taxis due to concerns from regulators. The driverless car has just taken a big step forward and Musk’s wealth increased to an even greater and meaningless amount.

On a separate point I agree that badging those that voted for Trump as stupid is flawed. George Osborne summed it up yesterday when he said words to the effect of the number one issue for most voters being what they see in their pay packet. It’s up to Trump now to keep his promises.

It is ironic though that some of those defending the Trump supporters don’t extend the same thinking when talking about those whose chosen party won the election in the UK.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Tony you think that right wing is correct and left wing is wrong…..without any reasoning, evidence or reasoning.

As do you with left wing.

 

[sploo]

I’d forgotten about that.

If Trump constrained himself by not dealing with people who don’t hold him in high regard (and have said so) he’d not be where he is today.

Exactly. As pointed out several times already; his own running mate (Vance) previously compared him to Hitler.

As long as you're willing to fellate the orange goblin for the period of time you're in his circle then it's fine; which could also be argued as (another) one of his shallow weaknesses.

 

[RobinBHM]

On a separate point I agree that badging those that voted for Trump as stupid is flawed.

of course that is true

but that doesnt negate the fact that Trumps speeches are incoherent and rambling.
nor does it negate the fact that Trump is demonstrably dishonest and a law breaker

but his supporters still voted for him

number one issue for most voters being what they see in their pay packet.

price rises have been global, its the same here

I dont blame the Tories for post covid cost of living crisis

I would agree that Kamala Harris did not address the economy, but it wouldve been difficult to do so...........given that prices have risen whilst Democrats have been in power...........despite it being correlation not causation

It is ironic though that some of those defending the Trump supporters don’t extend the same thinking when talking about those whose chosen party won the election in the UK.

Im not sure what point you are making here. Are you saying Labour voters are thick?

 

[Fergie 307]

Trump golden sneakers, victory version available now!

View attachment 192042

And made in China I believe, or the earlier examples were anyway. Maybe now he will be able to get a better deal and have them made in N Korea.

 

[sploo]

Much as I think the man is dangerous I have a begrudging respect for Musk.

He bought Twitter for an amount everyone thought was too much. He’s just used it to get himself into one of the most influential positions in one of the most lucrative consumer markets in the world. His investment has arguably paid off. Was it a strategic play or luck that rescued his play to own a big slice of social media? We’ll probably never really know.

That's an interesting angle, and one that probably holds some water. According to most estimates he's probably "lost" $30 to $40bn on his investment in Twatter (sic) so he'll have to get some major business from Trump to make up for it; but he may well.

It's good to see the draining of the swamp in the US, and the handing of power to the everyman. You know... what with the new president being a multimillionaire who inherited his wealth and his close buddy being a billionaire whose daddy was an apartheid era emerald mine owner.

 

[sploo]

Im not sure what point you are making here. Are you saying Labour voters are thick?

I assume Blackswanwood's point was that there are posters who take exception to perceived attacks on the intelligence of Trump voters, whilst being more than happy to attack those who voted for Labour.

 

[Scruples]

erewego again! Another (tory?) saying that someone who disagrees with him is just biased and intolerant! Heroically "calling it out"!

and throwing toys out of his pram!

But AJB Temple is right on both counts. His descriptions of your general attitudes are pretty accurate and not really associated with politics in isolation.

 

[AJB Temple]

The media have woken up at last and are now describing the Republican victory as a landslide. Kneeler meanwhile is telling us that he has a "hearty and fond" call with Trump, whereas those close to Trump say he regards Starmer as a woke lightweight and negotiating amateur. My instinct is that Starmer is deluded about his relationship with Trump and clinging to the buffoon Lammy is ill advised.

Meanwhile the German government alliance has collapsed. Bodes well for NATO funding and it will be very expensive for us if Trump decides to curtail US support of it on nationalistic grounds.

 

[ey_tony]

Tony you think that right wing is correct and left wing is wrong…..without any reasoning, evidence or reasoning.

Tony, why are you so unaware that your post, all of your posts are mindless bigotry.


Tony, please could you read your post to your self and think carefully about why you are doing exactly what you accuse others of.


Tony, the benefit of debates is to learn from others and question your own beliefs……..please try to do this.

For starters I'm not right wing so you're WRONG on that one!
You conflate the idea that if someone disagrees with your opinions then they are by default a right winger...WRONG again!
I strongly disagree with far right views too but that doesn't make me left wing. Analyse that as you will.

As an ideology I approve of and welcome a number of the aspects of socialism so I'm not resistant to it, the only issue that truly puts me off is the mindset of the people who actually subscribe to the ideology which unfortunately is the problem with socialism and my opinion is based on a lifetime of observing people like yourself and others on this forum who subscribe to that ideology.

Starmer with his narcissistic left wing nonsense has put the British people at a serious disadvantage with regard trading with the USA not that the Democrats under Biden ever went out of their way to foster any special arrangements with the UK but Starmer and that bozo Lammy have certainly between them sabotaged good trading and general relations with the new US administration for the foreseeable future so please don't lecture me about bigotry when you and the other left wing bunch have been slagging off Trump incessantly as have your commanders in chief gone out of their way to openly deride Trump.
Starmer and Lammy = total muppets.

If you don't like Trump then that is your prerogative but you or your fellow left wing thinkers have no right to tell me what my opinion should be of him as I don't value yours or their opinions and I'm quite able to make up my own mind without an ideological mindset to guide me.