upgrading chipbreaker on my Stanley and Record bailey planes

[Dovetaildave]

Does anyone on here have experience with chipbreaker upgrades Stanley and Record bailey planes


I have a combination of Blades; Clifton, QS and possibly gonna be given some "surprises" this xmas.

I want to buy chipbreakers for this mix of blades.

Options are; Hock, Lie Neilsen (Stanley version), QS,

I've been told ; "Hock's chip breaker will lie closer to the iron and has a bevel on the edge that may not close down the throat of the plane as much."
Does anyone second this comment?

Thanks,
Dave

 

[Paul Chapman]

If you want the best get the Clifton two-piece cap iron - I have them on all my bench planes.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[DTR]

I've put Record Stay Set cap irons (similar to the Clifton two piece) on my bench planes. I can't say I've noticed a difference in performance, but it does make sharpening a tad faster.

 

[Argus]

.


At the risk of not spending money at christmas.........

2 - piece cap irons are only an advantage if you sharpen by hand - without a honing guide - as they won't fit in commercially made guides with the back part in place. Having to remove the back part to hone up in a guide defeats the objective.

The purpose of a two-piece is to enable rapid and repetetive sharpening by removing the need to unscrew the cap iron when sharpening.

Personally speaking, I cannot say that I have had problems with even bog-standard Stanley / Record chip-breakers (which are very poorly finished straight from the box) if they are fettled up a bit before use:

1 - Make sure that the edge is straight and square - a bit of filing will bring it into line.
2 - Make sure that the under side that is in contact with the back of the blade is dead flat and has a clean edge that sits in good contact along the edge of the blade back without any gaps - more filing.
3 - Finally, it helps to reduce the friction on the rounded nose with a bit of a polish up.

I think that is all a chip breaker needs to work well.

The final parts of the equation to ensure a good cut is the position of the chip-breaker in relation to the cutting edge relative to the type of wood you are cutting and the width of the mouth....... Oh, yes .... and a sharp blade.

As an added thought, plenty of wooden planes work very well indeed without any backing irons or chip breakers; just a thick, sharp chunk of good steel and a wedge.


All best


.

 

[Dangermouse]

I have fitted QS irons and chip breakers to some of my planes, and it does make for a better plane. They cut through hardwood and curly grain like butter.
Just fitting thicker chip breakers might help by stiffening the thinner Stanley blade. this would help stop chatter. But I would say fit both a thicker iron and chip breaker together for the best results.

 

[Fromey]

+1

I have fitted QS irons and chip breakers to some of my planes, and it does make for a better plane. They cut through hardwood and curly grain like butter.
Just fitting thicker chip breakers might help by stiffening the thinner Stanley blade. this would help stop chatter. But I would say fit both a thicker iron and chip breaker together for the best results.

 

[GazPal]

Both Record Stay-Set and Clifton two-piece cap irons fit in commercially made honing guides, BUT typically ones made in the style of Eclipse #36 guide.

 

[Gerard Scanlan]

Clifton two-piece cap irons are terrific. I know that some people don't agree but I was about to buy replacement irons for my stanley planes from Workshop Heaven and Matthew suggested I buy a Clifton 2 piece cap iron instead for a lot less money and see if that didn't make a difference. Well I have never considered replacing the irons since but all my planes have a clifton 2 piece cap iron. The plane cuts better and stays sharper for a lot longer. You can hone the blade with a Richard Kell guide without having to remove the top part of the cap iron.

 

[Vann]

2 - piece cap irons are only an advantage if you sharpen by hand - without a honing guide - as they won't fit in commercially made guides with the back part in place. Having to remove the back part to hone up in a guide defeats the objective.

The purpose of a two-piece is to enable rapid and repetetive sharpening by removing the need to unscrew the cap iron when sharpening.

There's more than one purpose to the Record/Clifton two-piece cap-iron. Firstly, it allows easier honing by hand, as you only have to lift the "deflector" off to hone. Though I don't agree that they're "Stay-Set" as lateral adjustment is affected, and depth adjustment still needs a final re-tune.

The hinged design of the two-piece cap-iron helps keep the irons flat against the frog face, whereas the standard Stanley type cap-iron tensions the cutting iron which puts a slight curve into the irons, which encourages chattering.

The great mass of the thicker two-piece also helps to dampen chatter, though that is also true of the thicker one-piece after-market cap-irons (L-N etc). A good cap-iron can upgrade a plane just as much as a new thicker cutting iron - without the faffing around with extending the yoke and filing the mouth.

HTH.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[paulm]

Both Record Stay-Set and Clifton two-piece cap irons fit in commercially made honing guides, BUT typically ones made in the style of Eclipse #36 guide.

Yep, sharpen mine in the eclipse, just removing the bottom piece of the cap iron first.

I keep the veritas guide for chisels as I find being able to easily add more pressure to the corners of the plane iron in the eclipse helpful in putting a very slight camber on the plane blades.

Cheers, Paul

 

[Dovetaildave]

Thanks for all your input folks.

I have taken the plunge and have bought a combination of Hock 2-5/8 and QS. (12% off at matthew's ) I don't know how they will suit Baileys but will know soon.

Dangermouse, thanks for the words of experience, you didn't say if they were Baileys, I presumed they were/are. Ill be using combination of thick and thin blades.

"Two piece boys"- I can and used to hone freehand for 20 years, but now its become a bit of a science since I went and bought the Veritas 2, so I have to get some use from it.

I bought a cheap eclipse recently for cambering, I don't have a grinder so like the sandpaper suggestion on the flat plate, sounds good for major cambering.

Once again .....Thanks =D>

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

I use the 2 piece cap irons and think they are the best things to do the job. I always remove the whole thing when honing, either freehand or with a jig. It takes no longer to do than removing a regular cap iron, so no need to avoid these just because you want to use a honing jig. That would be a pity, since the extra rigidity provided by thes irons is well worth having. Incidentally, I think the 'stay set' function of these irons is an artifact. The iron's need to be 2 pieces and hinged due to their extreme thickness, to allow the lever cap to exert clamping pressure. IMO this was the design brief and the other thing serendipitous rather than intentional. Those who find the 2 pieces finicky should tape the 2 together and use them as a regular one piece iron. The benefit of the extra mass and flat, chatter free cutter bedding is well worth the trouble.

Mike.

 

[James C]

I have a Clifton 2 piece Cap Iron for my Stanley No7 and found that I had to do quite a bit of fettling before it was putting any pressure across the whole blade.

I too bought a QS cap iron recently and am looking to see how that pans out.

 

[woodbrains]

I have a Clifton 2 piece Cap Iron for my Stanley No7 and found that I had to do quite a bit of fettling before it was putting any pressure across the whole blade.

I too bought a QS cap iron recently and am looking to see how that pans out.

Hello,

I don't doubt you might have had a dud Clifton. It may have been a good idea to have sent the thing back for exchange. However, because of all the variations in makes and ages of planes, the Clifton does have a lot of meat at the business end for modifying to suit. Once done, I'm sure it will not disappoint in performance. Most new one piece cap irons are designed not to arc the blade under tension as much as the original equipment would do; a recognsied flaw. The Clifton eliminates any chance of bowing the blade, by not needing any spring in it to exert pressure along the leading edge. The trick with the new one piece cap irons is not to over tighten the cap iron screw, and the iron assy will remain flat. The QS cap irons are very good value.

Mike.

 

[GazPal]

I have a Clifton 2 piece Cap Iron for my Stanley No7 and found that I had to do quite a bit of fettling before it was putting any pressure across the whole blade.

I too bought a QS cap iron recently and am looking to see how that pans out.

The nosing piece on two piece cap irons doesn't place any pressure on the iron until the lever cap is in place and locked down.

 

[James C]

I have a Clifton 2 piece Cap Iron for my Stanley No7 and found that I had to do quite a bit of fettling before it was putting any pressure across the whole blade.

I too bought a QS cap iron recently and am looking to see how that pans out.

The nosing piece on two piece cap irons doesn't place any pressure on the iron until the lever cap is in place and locked down.

Yes this I know. I kept getting shavings working their way between the cap iron and the blade and clogging it up. Once I spent around 15 minutes on fettling and then polishing the chipbreaker I set it up in the exact same way and no more clogging.

 

[GazPal]

Yes this I know. I kept getting shavings working their way between the cap iron and the blade and clogging it up. Once I spent around 15 minutes on fettling and then polishing the chipbreaker I set it up in the exact same way and no more clogging.

I think I'd have returned it for a replacement.

 

[James C]

I probably could have done, I have sent a Narex chisel back to WSH before because the face of the chisel was way off but this time it was a simple fix that I could easily correct and it performs excellently now.

 

[GazPal]

I probably could have done, I have sent a Narex chisel back to WSH before because the face of the chisel was way off but this time it was a simple fix that I could easily correct and it performs excellently now.

All's well then.

 

[Dovetaildave]

Forget the Clifton references.....The eBay seller never posted it, only replied to one email saying it would be a few days, not refunded.
Shame I have a friend bringing me a chip breaker/cap iron back from the USA to go with it.

I looked on her feedback and she's done the same to another two buyers since I bought the Clifton Blade from her.

I don't know if I can name and shame her here, maybe some of you have also (not) received what you've paid for, or also not received feedback even after paying seconds after bidding ended.

I asked someone if we should start a blacklist but they didn't think it would be worth it, what do you think?