UPDATE & GLOAT - Bevel-up Smoother or Scraping Plane or.

[promhandicam]

I am happily working away at my pile of Afromosia and things are going fairly well. Some photos will be posted in due course when the first unit starts to take shape. My one problem seems to be getting a good finish on the boards that I am gluing up to make 600mm x 2000mm panels. I have fairly successfully sorted out my cabinet scraper – putting a bur on it as advised on this forum – and it seems to do a good job of producing shavings and not dust, although it does get hot rather quickly. I’m therefore thinking about getting something to help me get a good finish a little easier as I have to resort to using my ½ sheet Bosch ROS.

I can only really afford to get one new tool (at the moment) and am undecided between a Veritas Bevel-up Smoother and a Veritas Scraping Plane. Which do people think would be the better of the two for me to get, or am I going down the wrong track? I’ve looked primarily at Veritas as I will be meeting up with a Canadian colleague next month and so plan on getting him to hand carry it for me (he doesn’t know this yet). FYI, I generally only have access to hard woods that often seem to have difficult grain patterns.

My current plane collection consists of a 4 ½ Stanley Smooth Plane, a 5 ½ Record Jack Plane and a 9 ½ Stanley Block Plane. None of them are wonderful I know, but I have spent quite a lot of time tuning them and sharpening / honing them, and they seem to be doing a fairly reasonable job. I also have a Scheppach hms 260 for initial preparation.

Thanks as ever,

Steve

 

[MarcW]

Hi Steve,

I'd choose the bevel up plane, it's an allrounder. You can hone the blade to whatever angle you need to from low angle to high angle. A second blade would come in handy. You can shoot too with that one, if you do take the version with straight, ground sides. Maybe one for shooting and normal grain and one for difficult grain with a micro bevel up to 70° effective pitch. Even if I had already a #5 1/2, I probably would look for a low angle jack, it has considerable heft and is a fine plane IMO - yes I prefer bigger planes, not those smallish, but that's more a personal choice. And for difficult spots with changing grain direction you can always grap for your scraper. For that one you can make a holder yourself or find one here i.e., it will prevent your thumbs burning :lol: . I have all these models, BU smoother, BU jack and two scraper planes and I have to admit a large scraper plane is splendid for scraping large tabletops of very difficult woods but everything else is better done with a high angle pitch plane, bench or BU, no matter.

Regards,
Marc

 

[Bespoke Bodger]

Hi Matey,
I am very familiar wiv your prob and over the years I've tried a number of cheap remedies. In the end I bought a brass bodied Norris one-off that has a mouth of less than 1 mm with blade projecting just a couple of thou. and I can plane any wood in any direction and the worst result is slight tearing that can be scraped or sanded. You can achieve a similar result by supergluing a
thin piece maple to the bottom of your 4 1/2 so as to close the mouth. it works well if care is taken to work out the required thickness accurately and cutting the mouth to the correct shape so as to not leave a gap behind the back of the blade.

All the best

Glyn

 

[Philly]

Steve
The BUS-a great smoother!
And Glyn
Welcome to the forum!
Philly

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi Glyn

Welcome to the forum.

Cheers
Neil

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

I'd choose the bevel up plane, it's an allrounder. You can hone the blade to whatever angle you need to from low angle to high angle.

Marc, I think that you are confusing the LV BU Smoother with the LV LA Smoother. The BUS is a dedicated smoother - it cannot be run on a shooting board. I would only consider it with two blades - high angle and very high angle.

I would rather have the BUS than a scraper plane. I have a Stanley #112 and #80 and rarely use them. If I need to scrape then I use a card scraper. The need to scrape has diminished as my smoothers have improved. The BUS is one of the best.

The LAS is a good all rounder. It is a far, far better smoother than your #4 1/2, plus it is a great plane for a shooting board. It comes down to priorities. I would also rather have the LAS than a scraping plane.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Alf]

I'd choose the bevel up plane, it's an allrounder. You can hone the blade to whatever angle you need to from low angle to high angle.

Marc, I think that you are confusing the LV BU Smoother with the LV LA Smoother. The BUS is a dedicated smoother - it cannot be run on a shooting board. I would only consider it with two blades - high angle and very high angle.

Yeah, but Derek, it's still an all-rounder as a smoother though - and nothing would prevent me using a low angle blade in it if that's what worked.

Fwiw, and assuming that whether you consider me biased or not is irrelevant 'cos they're both Veritas, I'd always prefer to plane wood than scrape it so it'd be the Bevel Up Smoother and likely an extra blade (or two?). And consider making yourself a holder for the card scrapers if the heat's giving you trouble. :wink:

Cheers, Alf

 

[AHoman]

Maybe one for shooting and normal grain and one for difficult grain with a micro bevel up to 70° effective pitch.

I agree with Marc -- it's very useful to have several blades in a LA plane. In my LN LA jack, I use one blade at 25 degrees for shooting endgrain, and another at 40 degree microbevel (started out at 38) for faces of difficult woods. I was recently planing some birch with some nasty grain reversals and this did the trick nicely. Because these planes don't have a chipbreaker, it's extremely fast to switch out the blades, and the mouth adjustment is also very fast.
Somewhere -- I think in Tom Lie-Nielsen's sharpening book -- there is a trick done by Brian Boggs, sharpening a LA jack blade to an extremely high angle and using as a scraper.
-Andy

 

[MarcW]

Marc, I think that you are confusing the LV BU Smoother with the LV LA Smoother. The BUS is a dedicated smoother - it cannot be run on a shooting board. I would only consider it with two blades - high angle and very high angle.
...
Regards from Perth

Derek

Hi Derek,

No I don't confuse both. As I wrote I'd rather prefer the LV LA smoother over the BU because of its versatility, including shooting because of its straight and square sides. There is certainly more heft in the BUS, but I guess highly dedicated planes as this one not as welcome if you start woodworking with a limited kit.

For the rest I agree, I'd rather purchase a LA plane than a scaper plane.

Regards, Marc

P.S.: I apologize for any misunderstanding I caused

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Yeah, but Derek, it's still an all-rounder as a smoother though - and nothing would prevent me using a low angle blade in it if that's what worked.

Alf, you're right. My mindset is showing. I tend to associate smoothers with conquering interlinked grain, and for me this involves a high cutting angle. I also have the luxury of several smoothers and can dedicate planes to different cutting angles. Since the BUS is not used on a shooting board, unlike the LAS and the LA Jack, it is dedicated to using a blade with a high cutting angle. But of course it can be used with a bevel with a low cutting angle.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

I'd rather prefer the LV LA smoother over the BU because of its versatility

Marc

I agree. I consider the BUS to be the better smoother - not that it is that much better at this - it is just easier to get a fine finish with the BUS. The LAS is equally capable of a fine finish, but requires a little more effort (down force). I consider the LAS to be a wonderful plane. It provides more feedback because of its lightness. It has a wonderful balance. It can shoot edges. I suspect, because it does not share a blade with any other plane in the LV lineup, that it has become the "poor relation" and is somewhat overlooked. If I had several planes I would get the BUS. But if I only had a few then I would rather have the LAS.

Here is mine:

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[promhandicam]

Thanks everyone for your perspectives. Since posting the original question, I have now read the various reviews on LA planes done by both Derek and Alf back in 2005 which I've found very informative - especially this one, this one and this one.

In the light of your advise, I've pretty much decided to go for the LAS and get 1 or maybe 2 spare blades - honed at different angles. This will give me a more versatile tool than the BUS but capable of acheiving the same finish, with high cutting angle and a bit more effort.

I think that Dereks final post sums it up quite well:

If I had several planes I would get the BUS. But if I only had a few then I would rather have the LAS.

For the (hopefully) few occasions where I still get tear out with the LAS I will resort to a card scraper- perhaps with the addition of a scraper holder if my fingers continue to get too toasty!

I'm now thinking that I should also consider getting a better honing guide than my trusty Eclipse, although perhaps I should teeter on the edge of the proverbial Slippery Slope while I come up with a good excuse, to convince the LOML need yet more toys! Perhaps I just need to bide my time and wait for something to self destruct which shouldn't take too long in this household as my daughter seems to have a hefty does of her mothers genes and seems equally able to cause inanimate objects to break.

Thanks again,

Steve

 

[Jake]

Just to throw confusion into the mix, I would buy the LAJ instead of the LAS. It'll do the job, and the shooting and stuff, and with even more flexibility. Then when you can afford a dedicated smoother, get the BUS.

 

[MarcW]

Just to throw confusion into the mix, I would buy the LAJ instead of the LAS. It'll do the job, and the shooting and stuff, and with even more flexibility. Then when you can afford a dedicated smoother, get the BUS.

Jake why confusion, I said in my first post a LAJ would be fine :?

Regards, Marc

 

[engineer one]

i agree about the plane, but would certainly suggest that for the occassions that they do not work, you need a scraper blade holder.

start out with the veritas scraper holder, and then maybe when you can justify it, and you do the work, a veritas scraper plane might work for you.


paul :wink:

 

[Jake]

Jake why confusion, I said in my first post a LAJ would be fine :?

For no better reasons other than the fact I hadn't memorised every word of the thread and all the subsequent posts were just talking about BUS vs LAS.

 

[Alf]

...I hadn't memorised every word of the thread...

For shame. [-X :lol:

 

[Anonymous]

Just to throw confusion into the mix, I would buy the LAJ instead of the LAS. It'll do the job, and the shooting and stuff, and with even more flexibility. Then when you can afford a dedicated smoother, get the BUS.

Me too - I don't rate the 164 and have often considered offering mine for sale on the forum as it just doesn't get used (far too light)

 

[Jake]

Me too - I don't rate the 164 and have often considered offering mine for sale on the forum as it just doesn't get used (far too light)

As you may have deduced, and I've bit the hand tool slope a bit harder, and I have to grudgingly admit that there's as much difference between Stanley and LV (or LN) as there is between say Dewalt/Trend and Fein/Festool.

 

[Anonymous]

Me too - I don't rate the 164 and have often considered offering mine for sale on the forum as it just doesn't get used (far too light)

As you may have deduced, and I've bit the hand tool slope a bit harder, and I have to grudgingly admit that there's as much difference between Stanley and LV (or LN) as there is between say Dewalt/Trend and Fein/Festool.

My 164 is made by Lie Nielsen