Training as an electrician, advice please.

[HOJ]

Best if you access the Part P regulation: http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/upload ... P_2013.pdf

Buy a copy of the IEE 17th edition on site guide for now, which is your bible:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/-Site-Guide-BS7 ... 932&sr=1-1

You will need a copy of the full regs when you go to college, they sometimes have arrangements to buy them cheaper, currently £80.00.

It will be difficult not to have to "Certify" work unless you limit your services to basic maintenace.

The defnitions of "Notifiable work" changed in 2013 and is limited to:

Provision/installation of new circuits.
Replacement of Consumer units.
Work in special locations, which is now limited to bathrooms.

I cant see how you wont get involved in any of the above at some point.

As I said before most jobs I get involved with are part of a bigger building scheme, and will have Building control involved,
and they accept my qualifications as a means of compliance, I still have to provide documentation for design and testing results.

Another option is to buddy up with a Part P Electrician who will carry out the Certifications for you, obviously at a price.

Paul

 

[mind_the_goat]

I know someone who did a college course to back up his several years of experience actually doing installation work. His main complaint was that the exams seemed to require writing the answers exactly as it they had been taught, so more a question of proving you could remember sentences rather than proving you knew the subject. Maybe it was his particular college at fault.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

That's exams in general.

 

[doorframe]

Indeed, if you attend the course then the exams are pretty easy. Part 1 was multiple choice after 2 yrs. The dinner ladies could have passed that with their eyes closed. Part 2 was written after 1 more year. A little harder. But some bods in my class still managed to fail. The NVQ was a ton of practical donkey work and then a ton of writing up. My NVQ folder is full to bursting and pretty worthless. The dinner ladies could have passed that as well.

Having the qualifications does not make you a good competent spark, but without them you are not a spark at all..

 

[No skills]

I've obviously worded this incorrectly in my last post, let me try again

Paul, you said you gave up your part P due to the costs and complications involved with it - what I was asking was if your cant certify your own work that is covered by part P (for example a consumer unit upgrade) how do you go about things?

I couldn't imagine anybody making a living doing domestic electrics without covering all aspects of it, I would certainly not waste my time and money doing a course if it ment I couldn't fit some bathroom lights or a consumer unit.

DoorFrame

"Having the qualifications does not make you a good competent spark, but without them you are not a spark at all.."

This is indeed the problem, I have worked with a couple of sparks that I wouldn't let work in my house but they are qualified.

Thanks for the replys, keep em coming!

 

[No skills]

Ok, just read the part P regulation link. This makes things a bit clearer, does everybody find it practical to use building control to check the work complies and issue certificates? Or is it a pain in the arse trying to book inspections and waiting round for other people?

 

[HOJ]

In the past I have just left all the required test results paperwork with the customer to deal with building Control.

I could have a bit of a rant about Part P, which to me is only applicable to those of us who comply,
what about all those that dont.

Only need to look on here somtimes!.......

 

[n0legs]

I could have a bit of a rant about Part P, which to me is only applicable to those of us who comply,
what about all those that dont.

.

It was always going to be a waste of time. And for those who complied unfortunately a waste of money, many have my sympathies.
My colleagues and I chewed this over when it was just an idea. The most common comment was how will it be regulated, especially when B&Q, Wickes etc supply all you need for a keen amateur to rewire his home.
A senior member of staff actually questioned the IEE and a Building Control rep/officer at a conference he attended. The answer was, and I quote, "If anyone who does not respect the rules tries to carry out regulated works when they are not qualified to do so will be prosecuted"

Well whoopee doo!! says my guy, "who's going to tell on them?"

 

[lurker]

It's about time sparkies had their own version of gas safe

 

[HOJ]

I worked as an I & M inspecter for Eastern Electricity Board, years ago, Monday mornings always
had a pile of "Test and Connect" request, from the weekend warriors rewire projects.

9 out of 10 I had to refuse, for all sorts of reasons.

The biggest culprits were and are still, the DIY sheds offering, firstly a leaflet, on how to rewire your home
and secondly for selling the gear to someone who has no idea.

Thankfully I have diversified over the years and now and only take on work I like to do, might seem arrogant,
but too old for all the hassle.

Paul

 

[No skills]

Perhaps I should go back to retail after all these years. Guess where I worked

Or maybe plumbing, I think I'd hate that more than what I do now :lol: :lol:

 

[n0legs]

It's about time sparkies had their own version of gas safe

I would be all for it.
Having seen a few DIYers get reverse polarity, one guy actually made his kitchen sink and plumbing live, another who doubled up on 1.0mm for a ring main due to not having any 2.5mm :shock:. Worst of all two dead in electrical fires and numerous other call outs from the fire service due to bodged up wiring.

However it's like I said earlier about the availability of the materials. I totally believe what I have written next, it came through a very very good source.
What I heard and it's only what I heard mind you. The IEE wanted the sale of electrical apparatus restricted to card carrying members only, they were told any such action would be quashed immediately. Apparently the threat to quash it came from the representatives of the big three, legal action was mentioned. There's too much big business for the manufacturers coming from the DIY market for such action to be realised.

I worked as an I & M inspecter for Eastern Electricity Board, years ago, Monday mornings always
had a pile of "Test and Connect" request, from the weekend warriors rewire projects.

9 out of 10 I had to refuse, for all sorts of reasons.

The biggest culprits were and are still, the DIY sheds offering, firstly a leaflet, on how to rewire your home
and secondly for selling the gear to someone who has no idea.

Thankfully I have diversified over the years and now and only take on work I like to do, might seem arrogant,
but too old for all the hassle.

Paul

Its good to find a fellow ex-board brother
My path and experience is very similar and I can relate to everything you've said.
I've said it for years that a few books should be pulled from the library, borrow a book and rewire your home.
Today even better, we've got the internet. Ask a question, get the knowledge and burn the house down. Yea that's great :roll:

 

[n0legs]

Perhaps I should go back to retail after all these years. Guess where I worked

Or maybe plumbing, I think I'd hate that more than what I do now :lol: :lol:

It don't matter where you worked, you obviously have the sense to do it right hence your original question.
Plumbing, well at least if the water gets too deep you can swim for it. I've never met anyone who can outrun electrical current :lol:
Sorry for the thread hijack by the way #-o

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I had a problem with my electrics, and I found a ring was fed by two fuses. When I checked everything out I found all three rings fed from two fuses each (two of which also supplied lighting) and the immersion and the basement lights on another.
I bought the house from a qualified electrician.

 

[No skills]

Now that's bad. Cant beat that but whoever wired my house last left a nice collection of wiring/junctions under the bath that I'll have to sort out one day, one of which is the cooker feed.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

In my first house the cooker feed was a spur off the dining room light.

 

[MIGNAL]

I once went to a house where all the top floor lighting circuit was fed from the ring main. It wasn't even fused down.
I got quite a shock.

 

[mind_the_goat]

It's about time sparkies had their own version of gas safe

How does that prevent anyone from doing shoddy work? And that applies to unqualified and qualified people. It may have the reverse effect by putting up contractor prices, to cover extra costs, and encourage more people to do it themselves.
Another comment here suggested that it should be impossible to buy material unless you are qualified, following that argument to it's logical conclusion the DIY sheds should be made to shut down completely. How many people fall off ladders, hurt themselves with sharp tools (including hand tools and modelling knifes), use sprat paint without respirators.Many more people die from car accidents and that is a licensed skill.
Perhaps building controls should be made more accessible, thus encouraging people to use them rather than hiding their work.

 

[n0legs]

It's about time sparkies had their own version of gas safe

How does that prevent anyone from doing shoddy work? And that applies to unqualified and qualified people. It may have the reverse effect by putting up contractor prices, to cover extra costs, and encourage more people to do it themselves.

In truth that's correct, it wouldn't stop any contractor putting out poor work but it would mean the customers case against them would carry more weight in the event of problems. Losing your licence to work should hopefully be an incentive to observe the rules.
I disagree about the prices rising. If everyone was singing from the same prayer sheet I feel it would even out the prices, it would stop the "do you want a certificate" wink wink nature.


Another comment here suggested that it should be impossible to buy material unless you are qualified, following that argument to it's logical conclusion the DIY sheds should be made to shut down completely.

I made that comment from an inside the industry point of view. I said earlier I sympathise with the electrical contractors who have invested good money for accreditation, certification and training, for what? For them to be undercut.
Who will pay someone to do anything for them when you can get the materials to do it yourself. It's the nature of the beast, it's why many of us come here. DIYing seems to be a natural thing and many many people are very good at it.
A set of regulations exist, for everyone to follow regarding electrical work, that can not be enforced because buying the materials to carry out the work is easy. These same regulations are essentially mandatory for those who make it their profession.
As yet I have not had sight of any rule or regulation covering wallpaper and paint, flowers and lawns, tiling and flooring etc etc. To say close down the DIY sheds is just silly.

How many people fall off ladders, hurt themselves with sharp tools (including hand tools and modelling knifes), use sprat paint without respirators.

Probably many people, the difference being (with the exception of the spray painting) it is usually only those in the action of the moment who get injured. A fire in a terraced house has the potential to destroy at least two more, or a visitor to your home could leave with a nasty electrical burn. The possibilities are many from an electrical accident/incident. Paint in the neighbours hair doesn't really compare.

Many more people die from car accidents and that is a licensed skill.

Absolutely agree. But, look at the consequences if you did kill someone. Points, fines, insurance premium hikes and ultimately imprisonment.
At the time of me writing this I am unaware of any householder doing time for dodgy electrical work at home. I do know of one case in Monmouthshire where the home owner was allowed to retrospectively apply for BCO approval on his wiring work rather than face prosecution. I believe it actually passed.


Perhaps building controls should be made more accessible, thus encouraging people to use them rather than hiding their work.

Removing the fees or at least lowering them would be the answer.
I strongly believe the majority of people carrying out work at home would love to be doing it right and have someone in the know tell them so. At the end of the day who wants to waste money or put the wife and kids at risk, right?
However lowering or doing away with the fees is unlikely. I have no idea how much the local councils make from the applications and inspections they carry out, but I know I've done about £3K with them over the years and I really don't think I've had value for money.

I'm not really that against people having a go to be honest. I just hope if they do they do it safely.

 

[RogerS]

It's about time sparkies had their own version of gas safe

I would be all for it.
Having seen a few DIYers get reverse polarity, one guy actually made his kitchen sink and plumbing live, another who doubled up on 1.0mm for a ring main due to not having any 2.5mm :shock:. Worst of all two dead in electrical fires and numerous other call outs from the fire service due to bodged up wiring.

However it's like I said earlier about the availability of the materials. I totally believe what I have written next, it came through a very very good source.
What I heard and it's only what I heard mind you. The IEE wanted the sale of electrical apparatus restricted to card carrying members only, they were told any such action would be quashed immediately. Apparently the threat to quash it came from the representatives of the big three, legal action was mentioned. There's too much big business for the manufacturers coming from the DIY market for such action to be realised.

I worked as an I & M inspecter for Eastern Electricity Board, years ago, Monday mornings always
had a pile of "Test and Connect" request, from the weekend warriors rewire projects.

9 out of 10 I had to refuse, for all sorts of reasons.

The biggest culprits were and are still, the DIY sheds offering, firstly a leaflet, on how to rewire your home
and secondly for selling the gear to someone who has no idea.

Thankfully I have diversified over the years and now and only take on work I like to do, might seem arrogant,
but too old for all the hassle.

Paul

Its good to find a fellow ex-board brother
My path and experience is very similar and I can relate to everything you've said.
I've said it for years that a few books should be pulled from the library, borrow a book and rewire your home.
Today even better, we've got the internet. Ask a question, get the knowledge and burn the house down. Yea that's great :roll:

I understand where you are coming from but why should those of us who are perfectly competent be penalised by the stupidity of a few ?