Traditional Drawer Construction (again!)

[Benchwayze]

Are we over-thinking through the problem here?

A drawer is a drawer, is a drawer. They tend to get loaded up. Drawers from IKEA et al, get saggy-bottom syndrome, because they are thrown together from inadequate material. Most of us on the forum work better than that. so we should make drawers to withstand the abuse.

I know there are limits, but that's up to the person who uses them.

As for my own furniture, I don't overload drawers. SWIMBO does, but I go around afterwards and redistribute! As long as I tell her, she accepts the wisdom of not stuffing the drawers full of springy woolens etc! Then promptly does it again next wash! :roll:

John

 

[Peter Sefton]

Jacob, I disagree. I've always fitted my drawer bottoms dry, no glue at the front groove. If at any time in the future the drawer bottom needs to be replaced, you're a bit fubar'd if it's been glued in. Thus far, I've never had any issues with a brass c/s screw moving in a slot and it is the recommended way to secure the drawer bottom - Rob

_________________
Dont' sweat the small stuff...

The Blokeblog


If you don't glue your drawer bottoms at the front, I am interested to know why you have slots for movement in the screws at the back of the drawer?

Cheers Peter

 

[Paul Chapman]

OK, I'm back Joyce says: "The grain of solid bottoms must, of course, run from side to side or shrinkage will pull them out of the side grooves; they can (my bold and underlining) be glued to the front groove and should override the back by 1/4" to which they are open slot screwed."

Assuming that Joyce used his words deliberately and carefully, I would say that use of the word "can" implies that he meant gluing was optional - otherwise he would have used the word "should".

My own view is that furniture design and construction should anticipate the future and the likelihood that it might need to be repaired. With this in mind I would never glue the bottom in a traditional-style drawer. Next time I see John Lloyd, the furniture restorer, at a show, I'll ask him for his view. He must have repaired quite a few.......

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Jacob]

OK, I'm back Joyce says: "The grain of solid bottoms must, of course, run from side to side or shrinkage will pull them out of the side grooves; they can (my bold and underlining) be glued to the front groove and should override the back by 1/4" to which they are open slot screwed."

Assuming that Joyce used his words deliberately and carefully, I would say that use of the word "can" implies that he meant gluing was optional - otherwise he would have used the word "should".

My own view is that furniture design and construction should anticipate the future and the likelihood that it might need to be repaired. With this in mind I would never glue the bottom in a traditional-style drawer. Next time I see John Lloyd, the furniture restorer, at a show, I'll ask him for his view. He must have repaired quite a few.......

Cheers :wink:

Paul

That's useful to know - Joyce getting it wrong again.
As Peter pointed out - if screwed (even if slotted) at the back but not fixed at the front, then all movement would be at the front. This is in fact exactly what happens, as I pointed out earlier re bottoms nailed to backs. Not necessarily a problem if the slot is deep enough.
Joyce is useful and interesting but the first port of call for info on old furniture is old furniture itself. If you want to know how to make something which will last a 100 years then look at something which has lasted a hundred years. Have a look at your own household stuff. Paul should do this too even though his drawer bottoms must be made of hardboard! It's a learning process either way.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Paul should do this too even though his drawer bottoms must be made of hardboard!

Actually, if you glue together three sheets of hardboard, it makes an incredibly strong board which is entirely suitable for some drawer bottoms (I'm not talking best quality furniture here).

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Jacob]

Paul should do this too even though his drawer bottoms must be made of hardboard!

Actually, if you glue together three sheets of hardboard, it makes an incredibly strong board which is entirely suitable for some drawer bottoms (I'm not talking best quality furniture here).

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Good idea. Make your own mdf kinda thing?

 

[Paul Chapman]

Paul should do this too even though his drawer bottoms must be made of hardboard!

Actually, if you glue together three sheets of hardboard, it makes an incredibly strong board which is entirely suitable for some drawer bottoms (I'm not talking best quality furniture here).

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Good idea. Make your own mdf kinda thing?

Yes, sort of. Years ago I needed to make some drawers and boxes to go in the garage. Nothing special. I didn't have much money at the time but had lots of reclaimed hardboard. Tried gluing it together to make thicker boards and it really worked well. I'm still using a box that I made from the stuff - must be 30 years old and still going strong.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Peter Sefton]

OK, I'm back Joyce says: "The grain of solid bottoms must, of course, run from side to side or shrinkage will pull them out of the side grooves; they can (my bold and underlining) be glued to the front groove and should override the back by 1/4" to which they are open slot screwed."

Assuming that Joyce used his words deliberately and carefully, I would say that use of the word "can" implies that he meant gluing was optional - otherwise he would have used the word "should".

My own view is that furniture design and construction should anticipate the future and the likelihood that it might need to be repaired. With this in mind I would never glue the bottom in a traditional-style drawer. Next time I see John Lloyd, the furniture restorer, at a show, I'll ask him for his view. He must have repaired quite a few.......

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Looking at how antiques are made and constructed is a great way to learn but they used air dried timber in damp houses and they lasted very well. Much of the restoration that takes place is as a result of the change in our living environment.

We tend to live and work in buildings with much lower humidity’s and we need to construct furniture with this in mind. With good timber selection and using dry stock we should be able to predict how the timber will fair over time. I do hope my finest handmade drawers will not end up in a garage or damp shed if so my drawers may not last as that was not there intended use.
TTOFM by Joyce is an excellent sounding board but I don't believe every word to be correct how can it be there are over 500 pages. As with all the things we post about on here there are lots of ways of doing each job and we are all talking of specific applications that we have in our own minds and personal experience of that’s what makes it so interesting

Cheers Peter

 

[jimi43]

Not that I was naive enough not to expect a lively debate...even I am astounded by the depth and passion expended on this thread on the humble drawer! :mrgreen:

This is wonderful....keep it up because it all makes perfect sense to me and at the end of it...my tool chest is going to be built to the very highest standard...as gleened from these in-depth debate. 8)

Thanks for the examples Jacob...I think you ought to stop now though lest your missus objects to further rummaging in her drawers! :mrgreen:

Jim

 

[AndyT]

Jimi

I'm bumping up this old thread again because I'm wondering how your planning is going for your extra special tool chest and to offer you some more inspiration.
Have you come across "The Toolbox Book" by Jim Tolpin? It covers a wide variety of tool boxes (yes, really!) including quite a few which are special chests of drawers. If you want to have a look before shelling out and buying the book, or ordering it from your library, find it on Amazonand use their 'search inside' feature. Search on "Bennet" to go to pages 53-55 or thereabouts for some fine looking tool chests of drawers made at the Bennet Street school in Boston.

 

[jimi43]

Hey Andy..that looks like a "present for me for being a good boy" book!

BUT...I just bought the Handplane Book (Garratt Hack)....as demonstrated to me by our dear friend Douglas today so....mmmm

Ok...I can think up an excuse by 7pm when Annie gets back...and in any case...ordering is 9/10ths of the law isn't it...?

Oops! She just came in...gotta hide! :mrgreen:

Thanks for the link...I have to have that book now ya know...just have to! :mrgreen:

See...if I hadn't been oggling your beautiful saw handle I would have it by now! Darn! 8)

Jim

 

[AndyT]

You can always send it back if you don't like it.
You need some holiday reading.
You like to support independent publishers in the age of the ebook.
You can read it and sell it afterwards.
You worked all day on Sunday and deserve a treat.
Your finger slipped on the 'one-click' ordering button.
It's a bargain!

 

[jimi43]

You can always send it back if you don't like it.
You need some holiday reading.
You like to support independent publishers in the age of the ebook.
You can read it and sell it afterwards.
You worked all day on Sunday and deserve a treat.
Your finger slipped on the 'one-click' ordering button.
It's a bargain!

Shall I try them all at once or one at a time until I hit mother lode?
:mrgreen:


Jim

 

[jimi43]

Whilst browsing FleaBay...I chanced upon the same book - new at £14.38 incl delivery and well...one has to go for the Buy-It-Now in case someone else buys it....and I think I got away with it! :mrgreen:

Jim

 

[AndyT]

Ok one more excuse - Andy made you do it!

Thanks for the nice comments about my saw handle btw!

 

[jimi43]

Ok one more excuse - Andy made you do it!

Thanks for the nice comments about my saw handle btw!

Nah! I don't rat on me mates! :mrgreen:

Re your saw handle..it's a pleasure mate...you have done a superb job...I bet you find yourself at bootfairs looking for saws with broken handles and even but blunt teeth this weekend...am I right? :wink:

Jim

 

[AndyT]

Not quite time for a bootfair yet ... you see I have a few old saws 'in stock' - somewhere under a layer of old planes - and useful bits of wood!

When all the tools are sharpened and re-handled, then I'll have to get around to making something with them! :lol:

 

[jimi43]

........When all the tools are sharpened and re-handled, then I'll have to get around to making something with them! :lol:

Nah...just become a toolmaker and let everyone else make bookcases!

:mrgreen:

Jim