Trades People

[dzj]

As Trevanion suggests, do the job yourself. It's not rocket science and there'll be plenty of people here willing to offer advice if you run into problems.
You made a gate, so your motor skills must be OK and you probably already have the necessary tools.

 

[Lonsdale73]

As Trevanion suggests, do the job yourself. It's not rocket science and there'll be plenty of people here willing to offer advice if you run into problems.
You made a gate, so your motor skills must be OK and you probably already have the necessary tools.

To reiterate, the doors are made and ready to hang - this is where I need assistance! Once the up-and-over is off (for which I don't need any assistance, it's been trying to do that itself for years now!) then I need the new doors on, secured and sound in one go as I can't leave my workshop lying open and exposed to the elements or the passing opportunist thief while I post a 'Help!' plea and wait for someone to actually read and understand the issue and offer the appropriate advice.

I'm sure if time and circumstance permitted, and no doubt with some sound advice, then I could possibly manage to single-handedly manouevre them in to position, hold them square while I screw the hinges in place such that both doors meet where they should, when they should. However, given the constraints in place then I'm much happier to pay an expert for the (relative) piece of mind having a right-first-time job done by someone who knows what they're doing.

And crux of the matter is I'm seriously hacked off by the complete absence of courtesy, manners and professionalism in people passing themselves off as trades people. It's little wonder so many are viewed as 'cowboys' which is not only unfair on the genuine ones who have a care for and take pride in a job well done but also to proper cowboys who represent some of the best horse people ever to have ridden.

 

[Lons]

And crux of the matter is I'm seriously hacked off by the complete absence of courtesy, manners and professionalism in people passing themselves off as trades people. It's little wonder so many are viewed as 'cowboys' which is not only unfair on the genuine ones who have a care for and take pride in a job well done but also to proper cowboys who represent some of the best horse people ever to have ridden.

You can't get around that unfortunately and just have to accept that there are a lot of those types out there, that's why the good ones are rarely short of work and look after their reputation. The cowboys never did my business any harm, quite the opposite as once people realise you're not one of them you become first and often only one they call.

I guess now your issue is that hanging a couple of doors is a small labour only job and harder to find a decent joinery company to take it on. Many joiners who work in these companies do guvvy jobs at the weekends so maybe another chat in the pub?

As far as the doors, I can't really understand your problems tbh as even if your new doors weren't fully fitted they can easily be made secure overnight for finishing and adjusting the next day at least as secure as your current door as those aere very easy to get in to.
All it needs is them to be hung as said using carriage bolts if face hinges ( I suggest double or locknuts on the inside or rounding over the bolt thread, maybe drill and insert pins ). If you haven't fitted locks then screw some timber across to keep the doors together or It's worth fitting a couple of full width removeable metal bars inside to lock the doors together if you want better future security and that could be done anyway to help secure them while fitting.....
......Or just wedge solid from the inside and simply park your car tight up against them until fully finished!

During my work we had to temporarily secure premises on many occasions and it really isn't difficult.

Great name btw, you aren't a long lost relative are you? :lol:

cheers
Bob

 

[will1983]

Thank you for your detailed post. From the other side of the coin, I am very clear to anyone I employ to do work for me: don't lie. I can cope with delays, changes, problems, difficulties Sh*t happens, goalposts move, life isn't fair. I get all that, so don't tell me it will be ready tomorrow, when you know damn well it won't be ready for a fortnight. Just tell the truth, and will be fine. "I completely forgot" is so much better than "The dog ate my homework".

I absolutely agree with this, it is unfortunate that as a Client you should have to state that however.
Honesty is always the best policy, in my experience most people are nice understanding types (at least all those that I've had the pleasure of working for) generally they are quite happy if you need to alter something or rearrange a time/day. This only applies though as long as you tell them far enough in advance! A call on the morning you are supposed to be there is too late.

I cannot comment on the behaviour of others but as a tradesperson I cannot understand why someone would go to all the effort of communications, a site visit and prepare a quote to then disappear. It just isn't an efficient way to run a business. All those tasks require a huge amount of time and effort which is completely wasted if it isn't followed up.

As for your garage doors, I sincerely hope you get sorted but here are a few reasons I would also be a bit reluctant to install them on a labour only basis;

• Having not made them myself I cannot guarantee they are straight, square, actually a matched pair and in wind.
  Unless they are supplied with a matching frame I would not expect them to fit into the existing frame correctly.
  Being a over and over type door originally I don't think the existing frame would be strong enough to then hang side hung doors from.
  If the existing arrangement is in such a deteriorated state any strength it had has been severely impaired.
  Finally hanging a pair of doors is a lot more work than hanging two individual doors

Apologies to the poster, I missed your name, but on the subject of checking Google Street View to have a look at the Client's home before the call, I used to do this but have stopped now. I had a few experiences where I had presumed an outcome based on the appearance of the house that turned out to be completely wrong. In it's place I've adopted the attitude of "My prices are my prices, it doesn't matter if you are the lord of the manor or the gardener, that's just how much it is. If you want it and are willing to pay for it then I'll work for you."

 

[Doug71]

To that end, it was back to YP and I contacted a number of of joinery firms in the area, pretty much all of them, asking them to quote on the supply and fitting of side-opening garage doors. Not one company got back to me. Not one.

I am not defending them because obviously they should get back to you but I will tell you what I think the problem is.

I am guessing the doors you wanted were softwood framed, ledged and braced? You can pick up standard sized ones from Howden Joinery for probably £80, you will get some made to measure online for probably £50 more. They will be nice and knotty 5ths redwood and stapled together.

If a smaller joinery firm was to make them they would be much more expensive but much better quality, unsorted redwood, wedged mortise and tenons etc.

I could knock some together with a couple of 4x2's using my big domino jointer and a bit of knotty t+g from the local builders merchant which would be cheapish and better than the Howdens ones but it's not what I do.

The joinery firm will probably think they are wasting their time quoting because it will be at least double what the customer is expecting and the customer will think the joinery firm are trying to rip them off.

I could be wrong, opinions welcome

 

[Doug71]

Apologies to the poster, I missed your name, but on the subject of checking Google Street View to have a look at the Client's home before the call, I used to do this but have stopped now. I had a few experiences where I had presumed an outcome based on the appearance of the house that turned out to be completely wrong. In it's place I've adopted the attitude of "My prices are my prices, it doesn't matter if you are the lord of the manor or the gardener, that's just how much it is. If you want it and are willing to pay for it then I'll work for you."

It was part tongue in cheek. It is handy for example though if they have asked about a new front door and you see the house is right on the pavement, the pavement is only 18 inches wide and next to a busy road. Also good for checking parking, but I do prefer working in areas that look like my van full of tools should still be there when I come out of the house :wink:

 

[Lonsdale73]

So, of the actual tradesmen on here, if I lived in your area and you were one of the companies I had approached for a quote to supply and fit a pair of side opening garage doors, what price would you have quoted? PM me if you're not comfortable sharing your prices with potential rival operators.

 

[RobinBHM]

So, of the actual tradesmen on here, if I lived in your area and you were one of the companies I had approached for a quote to supply and fit a pair of side opening garage doors, what price would you have quoted? PM me if you're not comfortable sharing your prices with potential rival operators.

Its probably a bit much for 1 days work, maybe itll run into 2 days.
It is a straightforward job for a site chippie -fitting doors is bread and butter work

TBH If you made the doors Im surprised you arent fitting them....but I can understand the concern.

If it was me, I would make a new frame and pre hang the doors and have them swinging, with all the ironmongery on them. That way you are reducing the time the garage is exposed, also it allows an easier method of fitting -fix the frame to suit the doors.


For a set of doors going into a garage door opening Id make the frame plenty undersize to allow lots of adjustment -it can be foamed up and trimmed after to make all neat.

Then when it comes to swapping over, the new frame can be wedged into place, hang the doors in place, then move the frame around to suit the doors.
With a bit of planning pretty large doors can be fitted by one person without struggling....there are ways!

 

[Lonsdale73]

So, of the actual tradesmen on here, if I lived in your area and you were one of the companies I had approached for a quote to supply and fit a pair of side opening garage doors, what price would you have quoted? PM me if you're not comfortable sharing your prices with potential rival operators.

Its probably a bit much for 1 days work, maybe itll run into 2 days.
It is a straightforward job for a site chippie -fitting doors is bread and butter work

TBH If you made the doors Im surprised you arent fitting them....but I can understand the concern.

If it was me, I would make a new frame and pre hang the doors and have them swinging, with all the ironmongery on them. That way you are reducing the time the garage is exposed, also it allows an easier method of fitting -fix the frame to suit the doors.


For a set of doors going into a garage door opening Id make the frame plenty undersize to allow lots of adjustment -it can be foamed up and trimmed after to make all neat.

Then when it comes to swapping over, the new frame can be wedged into place, hang the doors in place, then move the frame around to suit the doors.
With a bit of planning pretty large doors can be fitted by one person without struggling....there are ways!

Seems to be some confusion here; I DIDN'T MAKE THE DOORS, I BOUGHT THEM! My reason for BUYING is precisely the same as my reason for wanting an experienced joiner to come fit them for me - I haven't the confidence in my own ability to tackle it myself. I know my limitations and whereas I'll happily try out new projects in the workshop, this, for me, couldn't simply be a trial and error scenario.

Someone mentioned 'tightwad'; I asked the latest no-show how much he would have charged had I found him earlier and got him to to do the supply and fit (which I never expected to be turned around in a single day!) and he said 'around £300'. That's within a London pint of the price of the doors alone.

 

[doctor Bob]

Some people have no conscience.
I just can't treat people like that, it makes me lose sleep.
I give honest prices, they get a proper job and deadlines are always met.
Also happy to tell people "NO".
I value my peace of mind as much as theirs.
Some people just don't care, me first attitude, talk a great game and take the money sometimes and then tumble weed.
Recommendation everytime for tradesmen, however even that is not a gaurantee.
Definately minimal money up front.
I work on a third up front, a third on delivery and a third on completion.
Seems fair, however if I was a rogue I could still do you for many 1000's !!!!!