Trades People

[Lons]

Similar experience in my case. Working families always paid up especially old school who wouldn't buy anything on credit and appreciated how hard a small trader needs to work.

I had 3 issues with payments being very slow. Co-incidently all Scots, though I had other very good Scottish customers, all pretty well healed, a senior GP with an NHS matron wife, an accountant/company director and a financial advisor with his own company.
In all cases I just said to the wives, I don't give credit, get your husband to pay the invoice immediately or I won't do any more work for you and will make sure the neighbours know why.
That worked. :lol:

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Did they heal well before or after?

 

[Lons]

Did they heal well before or after?

I know all 3 husbands got a bo**ocking :lol: After being paid I turned down all requests to work for 2 of them but the other were friends and remain so to this day, I carried out a number of sizeable projects for them all paid immediately on completion.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I had two brothers whom I knew to talk to and knew were very good to build my garage. 20' x 19', pitched roof, cavity walled, double glazed etc. They worked together or individually according to whether a job would get them near the VAT threshold. Most of the materials were put through my own account using their discount when it applied. When they asked for a couple of grand, I paid them without question (and also a cheque for £1500 and cash for the rest) It was a hot summer and we kept them in gallons of iced squash etc. There isn't a builder in the Country who would have done a better job.
When it was finished they moved on to do a smaller job for a neighbour. I saw them on the second day unloading the mini digger and asked why they took it home with them. Shaun said it was because they'd had theft insurance issues and so weren't happy to leave it there. I said I'd give him the keys to my garage (which had nine foot double doors, so loads of room) and he could leave it there. Four days later he turned up at the front door with the keys and a slab of of beer. You didn't have to do that, I said. No ....... nor did you, said Shaun.
Don't people especially in small communities ever stop think how quickly bad news travels?

 

[Trainee neophyte]

In all cases I just said to the wives, I don't give credit, get your husband to pay the invoice immediately or I won't do any more work for you and will make sure the neighbours know why.
That worked. :lol:

Now that is clever - women are all about status and appearance. I shall tuck that away to be used if necessary.

 

[Lons]

In all cases I just said to the wives, I don't give credit, get your husband to pay the invoice immediately or I won't do any more work for you and will make sure the neighbours know why.
That worked. :lol:

Now that is clever - women are all about status and appearance. I shall tuck that away to be used if necessary.

It's so easy to carry out the threat and they know it, all you have to do is ask your missus to put the word out and we all know how the gossip spreads during the coffee mornings, school runs etc. :wink:
With a threat from the wife to pay up or make your own dinner, do your own washing or restricted sexual favours, :shock: how long would it be before a bloke caved in. :lol:

 

[Geoff_S]

From personal experience.

Don't for one second give any tradesperson any idea that you might know what you are talking about. Just keep any knowledge that you have to yourself, and only use it in times of emergency.

Don't greet them dressed in your grubbies and try to avoid taking them past your workshop.

Just tell them what's wrong, do not suggest solutions.

Do not point out anything that you have done yourself, and if they pay a compliment about any part of your house, just smile and say thank you.

Ask questions but straightforward questions, not questions designed as a trap.

Then you might get some interest, maybe even an estimate/quote. At least they're then on the hook, albeit a flimsy one.

 

[Doug71]

Do not point out anything that you have done yourself, and if they pay a compliment about any part of your house, just smile and say thank you.

In the past I have pointed out to customers things that have not been done properly or are going to cause problems only to be told they have done it themselves so I try to be a little more subtle these days.

If you are wanting a tradesperson I would say it's always best to actually pick up the phone and call them. If someone calls me I take the enquiry more seriously but if it's a text or email enquiry I always think they are contacting quite a few people so I am not as interested.

 

[Lons]

From personal experience.

Don't for one second give any tradesperson any idea that you might know what you are talking about. Just keep any knowledge that you have to yourself, and only use it in times of emergency.

Don't greet them dressed in your grubbies and try to avoid taking them past your workshop.

Just tell them what's wrong, do not suggest solutions.

Do not point out anything that you have done yourself, and if they pay a compliment about any part of your house, just smile and say thank you.

Ask questions but straightforward questions, not questions designed as a trap.

Then you might get some interest, maybe even an estimate/quote. At least they're then on the hook, albeit a flimsy one.

From the other viewpoint it helps if you at least have a fair idea of what you want to achieve and have done some homework so you know your budget will be enough.

It always surprised me how often that wasn't the case or where the potential customer really just wanted to pick your brains and maybe even do it themselves. A tradesman who suspects that will walk away.
It's one of the few industries where it's often given free. If you want advice from a solicitor, financial advisor, surveyor etc you pay a fee, call out for an appliance repair and theres's a charge before it's even looked at, your time and experience if working for yourself is just as valuable and whilst you're giving it away you're not earning, customers rarely see or care about that.

All that said, I was always honest, always responded even if it was just to say sorry, don't have time or don't want to do that work and expected the same in return, customers are sometimes just as guilty in not reponding to tradesmen who have spent time preparing an estimate never to hear the outcome.

 

[Geoff_S]

What you say Lons is interesting. I am desperately trying to find a roofer.

I have 2 x 7 metre gulleys lined in lead. They hadn’t been done properly as the previous roofer had laid one 7 metre strip of lead in each gulley. They of course have split.

I didn’t tell the roofers that turned up anything other than the roof is leaking. They had a look and told me it had been done wrong.

I then made the mistake of asking if rubber or fibreglass resin would be a good idea?

Well, I of course had made the mistake of suggesting a little knowledge. The body language said it all.

One of them never came back.

One did with an estimate of £9600.

The last one hasn’t come back and won’t answer his phone.

 

[Lons]

What you say Lons is interesting. I am desperately trying to find a roofer.

I have 2 x 7 metre gulleys lined in lead. They hadn’t been done properly as the previous roofer had laid one 7 metre strip of lead in each gulley. They of course have split.

I didn’t tell the roofers that turned up anything other than the roof is leaking. They had a look and told me it had been done wrong.

I then made the mistake of asking if rubber or fibreglass resin would be a good idea?

Well, I of course had made the mistake of suggesting a little knowledge. The body language said it all.

One of them never came back.

One did with an estimate of £9600.

The last one hasn’t come back and won’t answer his phone.

Obviously I can't comment on that Doug as there could any number of reasons but if that's all you said then it seems hardly enough to put them off unless they were looking to rip you off. Roofing customers are easy meat I believe because it's often difficult for the householder to see the work and the threat of water coming through the roof can be scary.

No excuses for not answering your calls and asuming that estimate is way over what it should be then that's bad practice IMO. In my case I never overpriced an estimate / quote because I didn't want to do the job, much better to say you can't do it which the customer respects and is likely to ask again for the next job.
I had a case like that where I yurned down an extension, just said it was too large for me to complete in the time frame he had in mind as I was busy though I did look at the site and the plans and gave him a couple of ideas for changes. What I didn't know was that he was a retired farmer who told everyone and I later picked up some excellent work from his mates.

Roger S had a lead roof project he was struggling with and I put him in touch with someone, must ask him how that turned out in the end. Can be very difficult to find a reliable roofer and I guess depends where you live. Hope you get it sorted.

 

[Jonathan S]

When I where a lad traditionally it was always a plumbers job to dress lead....the roofer striped the slates and the plumber dressed the lead....has that changed?


Also without seeing your lead work....to be done correctly 7 meters length should be divided up into 3 or 4 bays each one higher than the next, this is to allow for the expansion, also if the width is to great that is divided into sections and mop stick would be used for the expansion .... so for the job to be done correctly there is quite a lot of labour.

Sent from my SM-J530F using Tapatalk

 

[Phil Pascoe]

The best way to find a good tradesman around here and in most other places I suspect is find a local pub, have a few beers with working people and ask them for advice. You'll be told if not whom to go to whom best to avoid.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

What you say Lons is interesting. I am desperately trying to find a roofer.

I have 2 x 7 metre gulleys lined in lead. They hadn’t been done properly as the previous roofer had laid one 7 metre strip of lead in each gulley. They of course have split.

I didn’t tell the roofers that turned up anything other than the roof is leaking. They had a look and told me it had been done wrong.

I then made the mistake of asking if rubber or fibreglass resin would be a good idea?

Well, I of course had made the mistake of suggesting a little knowledge. The body language said it all.

One of them never came back.

One did with an estimate of £9600.

The last one hasn’t come back and won’t answer his phone.

Sounds like the existing lead will need to be removed (a nasty job as there will probably be lots of lead salt dust) - the scrap will be worth a fair bit. If they bodged the leadwork they may well have bodged the substructure (e.g. quality/sizing of materials, underlay, corect fall etc. etc.).


When I built a large lead valley gutter in three bays, I found the lead Sheet Association book gives all the necessary details for success: https://www.thenbs.com/PublicationIndex ... cID=322689

I have also recently built an EPDM roof - I'd heartily recommend it as an alternative https://www.rubberroofingdirect.co.uk/ to lead (should last a good few decades, lead - properly done - can last a century or more).

Cheers, W2S

 

[Trevanion]

lead - properly done - can last a century or more

So long as some barsteward doesn't come along and tear it off to sell to the local scrappy :lol:. At least the EPDM roof is much less attractive in that regard.

 

[Lonsdale73]

From personal experience.

Don't for one second give any tradesperson any idea that you might know what you are talking about. Just keep any knowledge that you have to yourself, and only use it in times of emergency.

Don't greet them dressed in your grubbies and try to avoid taking them past your workshop.

First part very, very easy to comply with, second would be a wee bit difficult as the doors are for my workshop!

As mentioned, the brief is to hang two wooden doors in place of the existing up'n'over one. I wouldn't have thought that a particularly complex job for an experienced person, nor a long job which - as I said before - seems to be reflected in the prices I've been quoted. And I suspect that's the problem, thy'd rather have something more involved lasting days or weeks.

First tradesman I spoke to was working on the house next door. Amenable chap, loved to chat, he gave me a business card and said if I ever had anything to give him a shout. There and then I was able to say "Well actually, I have this, is it something you'd consider?" to which I got a 'No problem, just let me know when you're ready to do it." Which is precisely what I did and I've never heard back from him.

Second guy was referred to me by someone he has done a fair bit of work for. I know him myself, just never knew he was a joiner. Anyway, asked him about it, he said it was something he could do although he didn't seem as enthusiastic about it as he is for doing jobs for our mutual friend. But then I don't imagine he wants to bed me! That was back in Julyand he still hasn't got back to me with a time and date but I don't want to push him as I suspect he has issues that go well beyond a severe case of unrequited love!

And the latest to let me down was another referral. Having seen examples of the kind of work he does I did think a pair of garage doors would be a bit beneath him but he came to have a look at it all the same, knowing full well what was required. Now, I really don't mind if the job he expected to finish on the Thursday over ran a day or two, or if he had the option to tackle something offering more money. At least, I wouldn't mind if he'd had the decency to at least call me to say "Something's come, we'll need to do it another time or you'll need to find someone else" But he didn't, none of them have had the decency to speak to me and that's what's nipping my 'pineapple'!

 

[Trevanion]

I know you said earlier that it was too big for yourself to tackle, but is it really? I assume you've got pretty much all the gear needed to make that kind of thing, all you'd need is a bit of time here and there to do it and you'd end up saving your money, less stress of trying to find a decent craftsman like myself :roll:, and you'll have the satisfaction of "I made that"

If it's something you're interested in I'd be more than happy to help walk you through it all, it's rather simple really once you know what you're doing.

 

[Lonsdale73]

The best way to find a good tradesman around here and in most other places I suspect is find a local pub, have a few beers with working people and ask them for advice. You'll be told if not whom to go to whom best to avoid.

Where I grew up, that was precisely how I found my tradesmen. Plumber, plasterer, electrician all sorted over a pint.

When I moved down south and had to resort to Yellow Pages, I was struck then by how hard it was to find someone reliable and trustworthy. The whole house (an old Victorian terrace costing more than double the nice three bed semi with gardens fron and back, a nice long drive with parking for four cars - couldn't even [ark outside my terrace but still had to buy an annual parking permit !)

First job - bathroom - was an out and out horror story. Next up was the bedroom, my thinking being if I had somewhere nice to sleep at night and a lovely bathroom to wake up to everything els could come later. Once'd I'd got the industrial grade Anaglypta off the walls and the hideous polystyrene tiles off the ceiling it was obvious even to me the whole lot was going to need plastering. I got names and numbers for a couple of guys local to the area, thinking they would almost certainly have worked on similar houses - there was around 200 of them in my street alone!

First guy was TWENTY-SIX HOURS late and when he did turn up he said he'd have to come back later as he'd 'forgotten' his notepad, pen and tape measure. Obviously that didn't bode well but I furnished him with the missing items, even though I had expected him to have a rough idea based on his supposed extensive experience. Perhaps unsurprising that I never heard from him again. Next one came better prepared and in fairness he did get back to me - about six months later.

Then I opened the door to one with a pencil behind his ear, tape measure on his belt and looking like a sudden wind would blow him off his feet. I lead him to the area requiring his undoubted skills and he took one look at it and said, "Ah yeah, done loads like this round here. Needs two and a half boards so that will be three and 'x' bags of plaster @ £x, half day's labour £300." I can't remember the exact price but even though it was more than I'd anticipated (having had a similar size job done on my previous house a year earlier) HE was what I was expecting. One glance and he knew what materials he would need and houw long it would take him to do it. He turned up when he said it would and had the job done in the time he said it would take and left without leaving half a ton of waste and a real mess behind him.

Him and his brother did pretty much the rest of the house for me, including a complete kitchen and reflooring the cellar, which had been converted to an air raid shelter. I head him on the phone to one of his contacts, an electrician he wanted to come rewire the kitchen "The client's great, we tell him what needs doing, how much it will cost and he just goes 'Okay' and pays up.' I need someone like him now I've moved back north!

 

[Lonsdale73]

I know you said earlier that it was too big for yourself to tackle, but is it really? I assume you've got pretty much all the gear needed to make that kind of thing, all you'd need is a bit of time here and there to do it and you'd end up saving your money, less stress of trying to find a decent craftsman like myself :roll:, and you'll have the satisfaction of "I made that"

If it's something you're interested in I'd be more than happy to help walk you through it all, it's rather simple really once you know what you're doing.

It was something I did really fancy doing myself and I had a test run by making a gate. I'm still quite please with how that turned out but as these doors were to secure my workshop - both from potential thieves and the elements - I felt it really needed someone who knows what they're doing. To that end, it was back to YP and I contacted a number of of joinery firms in the area, pretty much all of them, asking them to quote on the supply and fitting of side-opening garage doors. Not one company got back to me. Not one.

So then I found a company offering an online, made-to-measure service who made the doors for me which I did think I might fit myself but again, it's something that needs to be done right first time and in a single day hence why it's best left to someone who knows what they're doing.

The guy who didn't turn up mentioned things I would never have thought of, such as using coach bolts to secure the hinges rather than screws. He clearly knows his stuff, perhaps why his service is in such demand he had to let me down but that doesn't excuse a lack of manners or decency to let me know.

 

[Lons]

It's a great shame you're having those problems and it does make me wonder sometimes. As I said previously their time is valuable and unless the details of the job are of genuine interest when first contacted why the hell do they waste their time and fuel going to look at it?

No follow up contact is rude, ignorant and detrimental to their business as they quickly get a poor reputation as being unreliable, same as those who overprice because they don't want the job as word spreads that they are hugely expensive and a rip off.

I lived near Hull many years ago and was shocked to find that in the course of business calls no one ever bothered to return a call, it was well known in the area at the time, hope yours isn't like that.
I looked to see where you live but too far away from me to point you towards anyone. If you do decide to fit those dors yourself you'll find it pretty simple and if you can get another pair of hands to help will be even easier.
One suggestion if you're worried about security is do some searching on the internet where there are loads of ideas and ask your local crime prevention team for suggestions, the police can probably help with that.