Tier 4

[Jacob]

Was Sunny delight promoted and advertised as junk food ?

You might think government and the health service would point out how bad it is for you.

They have, though apparently it's not banned.

Smoking used to be presented as non health threatening, big tobacco spent millions on promoting it and lobbying government....

It's now tightly controlled and heavily taxed

Maybe when our population is as obese as in the US, government might intervene.

It isn't though, but I agree about more intervention

Though government is torn between an economy that makes money and the health of the population, as in the current pandemic.

So I'll stick to Dr Mercola to present the other side of the story and make my own mind up.

He doesn't have another side to the story as far as I can see, except flogging quack remedies Dr. Mercola: Visionary or Quack?

 

[AdrianUK]

S%@£ .... think I’ve entered the wrong forum !

 

[Woody2Shoes]

The point I was making was the change of vaccine definition in 2016 as per the post you questioned!
The 2 quotes clearly and unequivocally prove the point.
The vaccine for covid 19 is basically a treatment that only reduces symptoms. It does nothing, zip,jingle bells in stopping transmission therefore is not much different to hydroxychloriquine and zinc, remdizivir, vit c,d et all. Only it could be far more dangerous and an absolute fortune to the people.

Wibble

 

[Terry - Somerset]

I am unconcerned about the definiton of a vaccine.

If an injection stops me getting ill, it's a win.

If it stops me transmitting the virus as well it is two wins.

Win-win is better than just a win on its own. But I would happily settle for either

 

[Suffolkboy]

Sorry mate it's obviously a bit above your pay grade.
As stated I live in the S.E that has a population density that many on here would find incomprehensible.
The actual neighbourhood I live in has a large elderly population and there is a large cemetery with crematorium. You can judge how bad the flu season or cold snap has been by the number of ambulances and hearses in the area and I have seen far worse.
I speak to people all day long and have been at work throughout, not meeting anyone who has it or that knows anyone that's had it.
Grand daughter number two has missed months of school though and since the schools reopened been sent home to isolate three times because someone in her year or tutor group or class has tested positive oddly no actual sick people.
Grand daughter number one lives with us she works in a dementia care home some of the residents get ill some get tested as positive for C19 they go to hospital and get sent back guess what the home still has lots of residents even the old and infirm don't all die of it.

Wait... You live next to a cemetery? Speak to people all day long? Jesus wept man what are you doing wasting your time on here. You should be at number 10 advising the PM!! Good god man! You're just what this country needs to steer us through this pandemic.

The only difficulty is how do we get you to number 10 and still maintain surveillance on this all important cemetery that clearly handles all of the people that die in the whole UK? I know. We'll put a webcam in your front window and pay a team of statisticians to count the comings and goings of the ambulances. My only concern is will their data recording and analysis be up to your clearly extremely rigorous standards? We can't afford to let anything slip through the net.

With you at number 10 who will "speak to people all day long?" I wonder... We could set up a phone in service with 100 call centre operatives poised to receive the vital information that you are currently managing to retain in that enormous brain of yours. I just hope we have a big enough super computer to store and interperate all the information to the standard you have so selflessly managed to maintain up until now.

Fear not world, the great Tom K has the answer to this pandemic and he's on his way to save the day!

Thank the lord for you sir!

 

[FatmanG]

I am unconcerned about the definiton of a vaccine.

If an injection stops me getting ill, it's a win.

If it stops me transmitting the virus as well it is two wins.

Win-win is better than just a win on its own. But I would happily settle for either

1\2 is a win for you then happy days. For me the millions spent on something that's unproven to be safe and doesn't stop transmission is a complete travesty as it does nothing more than widely available cheap medicine that's been around for years, and my children's Grandchildren's grandchildren will still be paying for it.

 

[Jake]

The vaccine for covid 19 is basically a treatment that only reduces symptoms.

That's just plain 100% wrong, you do not understand the information you have posted.

It does nothing, zip,jingle bells in stopping transmission

A. You do not know that, and the Moderna COO did not say that. Absence of proof is not absence of effect. He was saying Moderna do not know., as its practically speaking impossible to test that in the context of the safety and efficacy trials. How on earth do you use that as evidence for your absolute statement that it does zip all to stop transmission?

B. The point of a vaccine is to ensure that the body can deal with an infection and avoid disease or at least reduce disease prevalence and/or severity. It is proven to do that. It is also proven safe for people in categories represented in the trials.

C. As for quoting hydroxychloriquine and zinc, OK more evidence of dirty mis/disinformation habits. Well proven that they do nothing, overwhelming evidence of that.

D. Remdesivir is a partial treatment for which there is some but mixed evidence that it may improve severe disease ie ARDS. By that time, the patient is very severely ill and in HDU/ITU, with the aim being to stop death - you do not want to be there in the first place. That is 2-3 weeks later than the pre-symptomatic phase in which the Moderna COO was saying it was unclear whether there would be enough viral replication to enable transmission in the period while the immune response kicks in.

E. I have no idea what point you think are making in relation to the WHO quote.

Only it could be far more dangerous and an absolute fortune to the people.

Oh dear. There is no evidence it is dangerous, that was the purpose of the trials. It is absolutely fortunate for the people I agree on that.

 

[Jake]

Our immune system is what has protected us for centuries, and allowed us to become the dominant species on this planet.

I think in essence it is actually a mammalian thing rather than something humans specifically evolved.

It is our most effective defence against Covid. Should we not concentrate more effort into optimising it ? (Though an argument could be made for saying that is what a vaccine does.)

I'd put that the other way around, there can be no argument that is exactly what a vaccine does. If it doesn't, it isn't a vaccine.

The problem is that creating a new drug can generate billions, whereas testing everyone's Vit C, D levels has no profit.

Absent chronically low levels of C or D, extra vitamin intake is not going to help.

We have had a vaccine against the flu since the 1940's yet we have never conquered it.

Flu is different in the way it is constructed. It can vary itself much more radically, much more easily. Fortunately, its IFR is a tenth of that of COVID.

There are multiple diseases of the more stable type we have eradicated or more or less eliminated through vaccination.

 

[Yorkieguy]

That there would be a global pandemic and the next war would be fought not against missiles but against microbes was both predictable and predicted with uncanny foresight in 2015 by Bill Gates who - via his Foundation has donate huge amounts of his considerable fortune to research into debilitation diseases. Well worth listening to his 8 minute 2015 'TED' Talk:

The next outbreak? We're not ready

 

[jcassidy]

Let's just examine what contributors to this thread are calling normal;

1. Queues of ambulances in hospital car parks where people are being treated, because the hospitals are full.

2. Accepting that this disease will 'harvest' older people, and this is ok. (Can we have a poll of the elderly please to see if they accept dying so that some people can go to the pub freely?)

3. Governments ALL OVER THE WORLD shutting down economies and then spending gazzillions supporting a shut down economy.

And now for the craziest things of all (drumroll please!)
...
...
4. The DUP-led Northern Irish Executive accepting help from the despised Papal Free Staters - paramedics from the Republic have been sent into Northern Ireland to help out, on the condition that;

5. The DUP-led Northern Irish Executive agreeing to help the despised Papal Free Staters - sending paramedics from teh North to the the Republic.

Sorry folks, these are not normal events!

 

[Jacob]

Let's just examine what contributors to this thread are calling normal;

1. Queues of ambulances in hospital car parks where people are being treated, because the hospitals are full.

2. Accepting that this disease will 'harvest' older people, and this is ok. (Can we have a poll of the elderly please to see if they accept dying so that some people can go to the pub freely?)

3. Governments ALL OVER THE WORLD shutting down economies and then spending gazzillions supporting a shut down economy.

And now for the craziest things of all (drumroll please!)
...
...
4. The DUP-led Northern Irish Executive accepting help from the despised Papal Free Staters - paramedics from the Republic have been sent into Northern Ireland to help out, on the condition that;

5. The DUP-led Northern Irish Executive agreeing to help the despised Papal Free Staters - sending paramedics from teh North to the the Republic.

Sorry folks, these are not normal events!

Yep.
If sacrifices must be made I think it should be the young. They spend the first 30 years of their lives farting about uselessly, not contributing and being a burden on society. They then reproduce like rabbits, main agents of overpopulation, environmental destruction and climate change.
Whereas we elderly have paid our way, don't (can't) eat and drink a lot, have the wisdom of age to impart and will not reproduce (however hard we try), will discretely shuffle off this mortal coil in short order, without causing any more bother,

 

[Suffolkboy]

Yep.
If sacrifices must be made I think it should be the young. They spend the first 30 years of their lives farting about uselessly, not contributing and being a burden on society. They then reproduce like rabbits, main agents of overpopulation, environmental destruction and climate change.
Whereas we elderly have paid our way, don't (can't) eat and drink a lot, have the wisdom of age to impart and will not reproduce (however hard we try), will discretely shuffle off this mortal coil in short order, without causing any more bother,

Yeah but you smell like cabbage and can't remember where you put your car keys.

 

[FatmanG]

That's just plain 100% wrong, you do not understand the information you have posted.



A. You do not know that, and the Moderna COO did not say that. Absence of proof is not absence of effect. He was saying Moderna do not know., as its practically speaking impossible to test that in the context of the safety and efficacy trials. How on earth do you use that as evidence for your absolute statement that it does zip all to stop transmission?

B. The point of a vaccine is to ensure that the body can deal with an infection and avoid disease or at least reduce disease prevalence and/or severity. It is proven to do that. It is also proven safe for people in categories represented in the trials.

C. As for quoting hydroxychloriquine and zinc, OK more evidence of dirty mis/disinformation habits. Well proven that they do nothing, overwhelming evidence of that.

D. Remdesivir is a partial treatment for which there is some but mixed evidence that it may improve severe disease ie ARDS. By that time, the patient is very severely ill and in HDU/ITU, with the aim being to stop death - you do not want to be there in the first place. That is 2-3 weeks later than the pre-symptomatic phase in which the Moderna COO was saying it was unclear whether there would be enough viral replication to enable transmission in the period while the immune response kicks in.

E. I have no idea what point you think are making in relation to the WHO quote.



Oh dear. There is no evidence it is dangerous, that was the purpose of the trials. It is absolutely fortunate for the people I agree on that.

Last try: you disputed my information as to the definition change in 2016 by the WHO, I post you the paper outlining the change. The Modern a CEO was proving the change. The point is that the vaccine as most people understood it to mean is pre 2016 where it would eradicate the disease like polio,measles etc but instead they've been sold down the river with a vaccine that's been rushed using methods untested for safety long term that costs an absolute fortune that will prolong the life of the over 80s and the infirm but will do absolutely nothing to end the lockdown and destruction of the economy because it has no measure of stopping transmission.
I have 100% understood what I read.

 

[Jake]

Last try: you disputed my information as to the definition change in 2016 by the WHO, I post you the paper outlining the change. The Modern a CEO was proving the change. The point is that the vaccine as most people understood it to mean is pre 2016 where it would eradicate the disease like polio,measles etc but instead they've been sold down the river with a vaccine that's been rushed using methods untested for safety long term that costs an absolute fortune that will prolong the life of the over 80s and the infirm but will do absolutely nothing to end the lockdown and destruction of the economy because it has no measure of stopping transmission.
I have 100% understood what I read.

You have not addressed any of the substance of my reply.

There is every chance these vaccines could eliminate COVID-19 and that is absolutely the aim of the global policy response.

 

[Rorschach]

There is every chance these vaccines could eliminate COVID-19 and that is absolutely the aim of the global policy response.

There is no chance it will be eliminated, it will become endemic and just another virus that we live with.

 

[Jake]

There is no chance it will be eliminated, it will become endemic and just another virus that we live with.

I think your rules are post a response with a link to a controlled double blind study or else your statement is irrelevant and vacuous.

Edit: I cannot believe the lack of ambition, thankfully the people actually forming the human response to this are less fatalistic.

 

[XH558]

Teir 4 as well, I live in Hertfordshire.
Just trying to wrap my head around what I can do.
Was seeing 2x 87year old parents on Xmas day. Both not well, hope I get a few more future Christmas's.

Matching Green is in Essex................

 

[Jake]

Bill Gates who - via his Foundation has donate huge amounts of his considerable fortune to research into debilitation diseases.

One of the worst bits of mis/dis info in this whole thing has been the Sorosification of Gates. Both complicated figures, but each turned into great philanthropists.

 

[Tom K]

Wait... You live next to a cemetery? Speak to people all day long? Jesus wept man what are you doing wasting your time on here. You should be at number 10 advising the PM!! Good god man! You're just what this country needs to steer us through this pandemic.

The only difficulty is how do we get you to number 10 and still maintain surveillance on this all important cemetery that clearly handles all of the people that die in the whole UK? I know. We'll put a webcam in your front window and pay a team of statisticians to count the comings and goings of the ambulances. My only concern is will their data recording and analysis be up to your clearly extremely rigorous standards? We can't afford to let anything slip through the net.

With you at number 10 who will "speak to people all day long?" I wonder... We could set up a phone in service with 100 call centre operatives poised to receive the vital information that you are currently managing to retain in that enormous brain of yours. I just hope we have a big enough super computer to store and interperate all the information to the standard you have so selflessly managed to maintain up until now.

Fear not world, the great Tom K has the answer to this pandemic and he's on his way to save the day!

Thank the lord for you sir!

Ah well at least you are on the right forum nothing better on a woodwork forum than a plank and a nice thick one too!

 

[doctor Bob]

Matching Green is in Essex................

Yes it is ....... I live in hertfordshire ......... workshop at matching green.