They must be having a right laugh

[woodieallen]

Anyone seen that TV program called life at sea, about the crew onboard a navy ship that is on it's last legs and should have been called carry on navy because you expect Sid james, Barbara Windsor and the rest to appear if they were still around as it is such a farce. If the Russians are watching they must be having a great laugh at such antics and wondering why this crew believe that the UK is at war with Russia, I suppose it makes good reality tv. The sad thing is that we used to have a navy that was probably the envy of the world but like everything else it has long gone, in 1953 the Queen reviewed her fleet at Spithead and we had 193 vessels, six carriers, about fifteen submarines and so many other vessels with something in the region of 150,000 sailors, my old man was on the submarine HMS Aurochs at the time. This navy ship also highlights an issue that our government seems to overlook and that is that having something is just the initial cost, you then need to maintain and keep it in good condition and upto date so HS2 is costing a fortune just to build, but if you watch the program about the Japanese shinkansen trains then you see just how much is needed to keep them running.

Yup. I'm watching it and thoroughly enjoying it. I'm more interested in watching the interpersonal behavioural aspects but also enjoying the actual hardware. Dunno what you're moaning about.

 

[woodieallen]

..... and he is closer to the start line than I am. ....

That's irrelevant as far as deciding whether or not his views have any credibility. David Icke is closer to us and he's a nutter.

 

[woodieallen]

This thread definitely gets a prize for the over-simplification of history

Yup. I'm afraid Jacob does have that effect on threads.

 

[woodieallen]

Hmm dunno in recent years since Glasnost the Russians have been responsible for far less death and destruction than the USA, possibly even than the UK.

Carefully ignoring the support they have given to Assad in Syria and all the civilian deaths and genocide there.

 

[Jacob]

Carefully ignoring the support they have given to Assad in Syria and all the civilian deaths and genocide there.

Well yes but how would the figures pan out compared to USA action in all those other places?

 

[Jacob]

Yup. I'm afraid Jacob does have that effect on threads.

I strongly believe that much of history is simpler than they would have you believe. Ditto economics, politics, possibly woodwork too!
I put a lot of time into trying to translate things into terms which even I can understand.
Have been reading Utopia for Realists - The case for a universal basic income, open borders and a 15-hour workweek possibly the most interesting book I've read for years.
Highly recommended!

 

[baldkev]

Would you have expected them to stop at their own borders and set up some sort of Maginot line? The Allies didn't - they went to Berlin too, and worldwide.

No, but the pointvwasnt that they oersued the germans, it was that the persuit and land grabs were not self defence.

Youd make an excellent politician if you get bored with wood

They were even less happy hosting the Nazis, even if it was only for a few yearsIt's that what the Russians were doing at the siege of Leningrad, just gearing up for a land grab?
"This resulted in the deaths of up to 1,500,000 soldiers and civilians and the evacuation of 1,400,000 more (mainly women and children), many of whom died during evacuation due to starvation and bombardment. Piskaryovskoye Memorial Cemetery in Leningrad holds half a million civilian victims of the siege alone."

The attempted land grabs started before the germans turned on them..... there was the winter war and other russian offensives first.

after WWI which allowed German manufacturers to construct aircraft, etc inside the Soviet Union away from prying eyes

And they trained their tank crews heavily in russia whilst still banned from building up their forces, and russia knowing the likely meaning of all the activity and extra armies, geared up for their part.

 

[baldkev]

Well yes but how would the figures pan out compared to USA action in all those other places?

Russia trade heavily on destabilising and then sending troops to 'help'
A few years ago they were spread all over the place. They lost a lot of 'private contractors' when they attacked a u.s position. Russian social media went nuts as their families tried to work out how their loved ones died as 'private contractors' when they were enlisted as soldiers and sent out to fight......

 

[Jacob]

Russia trade heavily on destabilising and then sending troops to 'help'

A very well known and excessively used American tactic, particularly in S America and the Caribbean.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_America–United_States_relations

 

[baldkev]

Rumour has it vlad put up ad advert in the job centre looking for a political advisor..... i think he needs a spin doctor to help rig the next election so nobody notices ( again )
Oh yeah, and to lock up all political oponents just in case. They cant win if they dissapear

 

[Jacob]

Rumour has it vlad put up ad advert in the job centre looking for a political advisor..... i think he needs a spin doctor to help rig the next election so nobody notices ( again )

Er - you mean Starmer? He's got Mandy on the case.

Oh yeah, and to lock up all political oponents just in case. They cant win if they dissapear

Nowadays they just write them out of history. It's more effective than whacking them and it's not illegal!
Requires a docile and subservient main stream media.

 

[JobandKnock]

Well yes but how would the figures pan out compared to USA action in all those other places?

Lord knows I am not a supporter of the USA, but there is simply no comparison between what even the USA have done and what Stalin did.

A very small, partial list of Koba's works:

1936 - more than 35,000 Poles living alongside the Ukrainian frontier and some 20,000 Finnish peasants deported to Kazakhstan "to secure the Soviet frontiers"
1937 - about 175,000 Koreans living along the Chinese and Korean borders relocated by force to Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan "to secure the Soviet frontiers"
1940 - about 250,000 Poles and thousands of Ukrainians and Byelorussians deported in three major waves to Siberia and to Central and Far Eastern Asia in order to remove the most active populations from the annexed territories. Dispatched to labour camps or executed.
1941 - about 40,000 Estonians, Latvians, Lithuanians - and also ethnic Poles, Finns, and Germans – deported to the Soviet Far East

Note the timeline - much of this was before the invasion by Germany

And that list goes on. In addition there are those who were rounded up and deported, more or less on a whim, to the labour camps across Russia and in particular to the gulags in the Soviet Far East to extract minerals (gold, silver, nickel, tin, zinc, copper, diamonds, etc). It is estimated that as many as 20 million people died in the labour camp system, as the result of forced collectivization, or famine or were simply executions by Beria's goons under Stalin's regime.

Even after the death of probably the greatest mass murderer of all time, the Soviet regime continued to be very harsh, although Kruschev was a great improvement. It is hardly something to regard as aspirational, though.

So I ask you the question, " In the last century has any other nation killed or imprisoned as many people?"

 

[Terry - Somerset]

I put a lot of time into trying to translate things into terms which even I can understand.
Have been reading Utopia for Realists - The case for a universal basic income, open borders and a 15-hour workweek possibly the most interesting book I've read for years.
Highly recommended!

Even the Guardian, a paper which at least does decent journalism, and tends to socialist bias think it is a nonsense Guardian view of utopia ....

It should probably be renamed "Utopia for idealists and fantasists". But we are all free to interpret that which we want to believe. It is entirely plausible I am mistaken!

 

[doctor Bob]

I strongly believe that much of history is simpler than they would have you believe. Ditto economics, politics,

your simplification of politics certainly showed them when you stood as a Labour candidate. Do you think you over simplified it?

 

[Jacob]

Yes your simplification of politics certainly showed them when you stood as a Labour candidate. Do you think you over simplified it?

Obviously not - you didn't seem to get it at all!
Explainer - I stood as a "paper" candidate, i.e. no hoper, but just to make sure we had a candidate in every constituency in Derbyshire Dales. Interesting - had to get out there and canvas, not least because I needed 6 nominations (? can't remember the figure). Had lots of interesting chats, cups of tea, a gin and tonic, and picked up more votes than expected (the Corbyn effect).

 

[Jacob]

Lord knows I am not a supporter of the USA, but there is simply no comparison between what even the USA have done and what Stalin did.

I said "since Glasnost" (1965) Glasnost - Wikipedia.

........

So I ask you the question, " In the last century has any other nation killed or imprisoned as many people?"

Well the USA currently has the highest prison population of any nation - approx 25% of the worlds incarcerated.
In the last HALF century the Russians have been relatively peaceful compared to USA and have released their hold on the communist bloc.

 

[doctor Bob]

Obviously not - you didn't seem to get it at all!
Explainer - I stood as a "paper" candidate, i.e. no hoper, but just to make sure we had a candidate in every constituency in Derbyshire Dales. Interesting - had to get out there and canvas, not least because I needed 6 nominations (? can't remember the figure). Had lots of interesting chats, cups of tea, a gin and tonic, and picked up more votes than expected (the Corbyn effect).

What you could have got fewer?
I've said it before but I think I could have dressed as a flower pot and blown raspberries at every door and I would have got more votes. Still I expect some of the old dears were please to have company.

 

[Jacob]

Even the Guardian, a paper which at least does decent journalism, and tends to socialist bias think it is a nonsense Guardian view of utopia ....

It should probably be renamed "Utopia for idealists and fantasists". But we are all free to interpret that which we want to believe. It is entirely plausible I am mistaken!

That was Will Hutton reviewing. A very old fashioned Guardian style "centrist". They think it's cool not joining the Lib dems - their natural home.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

So I ask you the question, " In the last century has any other nation killed or imprisoned as many people?"

Mao was very successful in China. Jung Chang's Wild Swans and Mao, The Unknown Story are excellent eye openers.

 

[Jake]

If there were a ww3, the Russians would indeed cut the fibreoptics. They developed a submarine specifically for it. It wouldnt happen in peace time though

Norway has had a couple of incidents.