The Wheel Marking Gauge Rant.

[Jacob]

So far a reader of this thread might now feel the need for three mortice gauges. And two or maybe three marking gauges. So five of six gauges in total. Seems then the primary design criteria should be that the gauges are cheap as well as reliable. So regardless of whether wheel gauges work well they are simply too expensive for the job. Six Veritas would cost nearly £200. Six Titemarks would cost over £500.

Yep. I've got about a dozen trad woodies, two bought new the others all 2nd hand, including two mortice gauges. Total cost less than the price of one Titemark or two Veritas. Total value very much greater than a dozen Titemarks. These over-priced gadgets are ridiculous and aren't even pleasant or convenient to use.

 

[Glynne]

Did I say welcome back Jacob...?
Anyway, if anyone hates their wheel gauges to such an extent then please note my post above that I'm potentially in the market for another one.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Glynne, the only reason they state that they "hate" wheel gauges is they are trying to drop the prices on eBay!

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[AndyT]

We seem to be going over familiar ground in this thread.
Just in case anyone cares, I'm firmly in the "bunch of old wooden gauges" camp myself. I did once buy a boxful on eBay for a fiver, but they are one of those tools that just accumulate naturally. Many of the pins are just panel pins, filed to cut. I can make fine or bold lines, with or across the grain, in softwood or hardwood.

I've still not read anything to convince me that there is any advantage in buying a wheel gauge.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Which wheel gauge are you referring to? I have three different Veritas models plus one Tite-Mark (and two of them), and none of them display any of these qualities. It may be the case of getting what you pay for, assuming that you are referring to one of the cheaper knock offs.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Having been comprehensively rude about it, I'll spare the maker's blushes; it is of reputable manufacture and not a cheaper knock off - the beer tokens I parted with for it would have kept Graham's bottle opener occupied for several evenings. And to be honest, I don't think I got what I paid for. Ho hum - you win some, you lose some!

 

[Cheshirechappie]

So far a reader of this thread might now feel the need for three mortice gauges. And two or maybe three marking gauges. So five of six gauges in total. Seems then the primary design criteria should be that the gauges are cheap as well as reliable. So regardless of whether wheel gauges work well they are simply too expensive for the job. Six Veritas would cost nearly £200. Six Titemarks would cost over £500.

Good point - hadn't considered that. I suppose conversely, several wheel gauges take less space to store than several woodies; but if you're that pushed for space you'd be better taking up watchmaking.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Glynne, the only reason they state that they "hate" wheel gauges is they are trying to drop the prices on eBay!

Regards from Perth

Derek

There'll be no competition from me! Some offcuts and a few masonry nails, and I'm sorted.

 

[Glynne]

Glynne, the only reason they state that they "hate" wheel gauges is they are trying to drop the prices on eBay!

Regards from Perth

Derek

There'll be no competition from me! Some offcuts and a few masonry nails, and I'm sorted.

Swap you some offcuts and some masonry nails for your wheel gauge?

 

[DoctorWibble]

A better wheel gauge would have a longer and thicker shaft to avoid hand cramp. Or a handle. Perhaps, like a file handle, through which the standard shaft would run. The wheel would be fixed because a rotating wheel this small will always have run out and will follow the grain as surely as a bike follows tram tracks. Better still replace the wheel with a fixed cutter which can be removed for easy sharpening - you can't sharpen a wheel whilst keeping it round without some specialised machine. Last give the beastie a much bigger fence.
In other words a much better wheel gauge would look a lot like a traditional cutting gauge. A species which so far has not really been mentioned...

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

The Veritas wheel gauge with micro adjust is the one you want. No problem with tap and try, back and forth. No neoprene ring judder, if that is a problem. The micro adjust collet lock thingy is brilliant. I defy anyone to set a traditional wooden gauge as accurately, as quickly. And the term 'wheel' is a misnomer really, as it doesn't rotate, it is just a curved knife, so loosening screws shouldn't be an issue.

In reality, I use only 2 Veritas gauges, so the complaint that 6 is prohibitively expensive is moot. For instance one for the depth and one for the thickness in dovetailing, which will be carried out to completion and then the gauges are free for other settings. Because the gauges can be set so bloody accurately, they can be reset anyway, if needed later.

Of course, if ergonomically they don't do it for you, then another type is better, but for me they are elegant and efficient tools.

Before anyone says anything .... Remember, it was me who suggested making wooden ones in another thread and my liking of the Stanley 5016, so I like many sorts of tool if they work!

Mike.

PS you don't sharpen the wheel on the periphery, but on the flat face, so no going out of round.

 

[Glynne]

That's the one I have.
Setting to thickness for dovetailing, simply lay your wood on a flat surface, place the gauge "wheel / cutter" down on the surface and slide the body onto your timber. No need to sight or guess to set. Want your tails to protrude, simply use the fine adjuster.
Not the cheapest of all gauges but just had a quick Google and you an get a Veritas fine adjuster for ~ £28.
As I said earlier, I have a "traditional" knife gauge and after reading this thread I did have a play with it today. I struggled to get the blade in completely parallel to the fence (if that's the word) so my marks would have been wider than I would want. Probably me not being used to it but for the ease of setting and use, I'd go for the Veritas every time.
Each to their own!

 

[AndyT]

In school woodwork lessons, when marking a mortice, we were taught to define the start and finish of the cut by sighting the position of the marking gauge pins at each end of the pencilled rectangle and pressing down, all with the fence tight against the work, to make small but definite holes. Then mark the lines, with the pins falling neatly into the holes made at either end. Easier to demonstrate than describe, but the result was a nice clear marking with a definite start and finish, rather than a vague run-in and run-out.

It's not vital for all mortices, but avoids stray lines showing on the insides of stiles beyond the intersecting rails.

Is there an equivalent technique with a wheel gauge? Or must you remove the over-run with a smoothing plane?

 

[woodbrains]

In school woodwork lessons, when marking a mortice, we were taught to define the start and finish of the cut by sighting the position of the marking gauge pins at each end of the pencilled rectangle and pressing down, all with the fence tight against the work, to make small but definite holes. Then mark the lines, with the pins falling neatly into the holes made at either end. Easier to demonstrate than describe, but the result was a nice clear marking with a definite start and finish, rather than a vague run-in and run-out.

It's not vital for all mortices, but avoids stray lines showing on the insides of stiles beyond the intersecting rails.

Is there an equivalent technique with a wheel gauge? Or must you remove the over-run with a smoothing plane?

Hello,

I think you can be surprisingly accurate with the wheel, if it matters. For stopped marking, I push away from the boundary closest to me and stop before I reach the other end. Then I pull away from the boundary furthest away, almost all the way back. It is quite easy to start with the centre of the wheel exactly where you want, or just inside to be safe. Of course because the marks are not engraved deeply as a pin gauge would, a plane will remove any stray overruns. Funnily enough though, because the wheel marks such a thin line, overruns disappear on many Hardwoods such as oak, ash etc.

Mike.

 

[Jacob]

With a single pin gauge we were taught to push the gauge away from you but start near the end of the workpiece - marking say the last 10" , then the next10" nearer, etc so that each line runs into one made before - which starts accurately and any accidental run off will show up when the lines don't meet.
Difficult to describe. It avoids the pin wandering off slotted into the grain for the whole length - but if it does happen it'll just be for a short length and will show up. But once you get the knack they don't run off anyway.

 

[woodbrains]

With a single pin gauge we were taught to push the gauge away from you but start near the end of the workpiece - marking say the last 10" , then the next10" nearer, etc so that each line runs into one made before - which starts accurately and any accidental run off will show up when the lines don't meet.
Difficult to describe. It avoids the pin wandering off slotted into the grain for the whole length - but if it does happen it'll just be for a short length and will show up. But once you get the knack they don't run off anyway.

Hello,

That's funny, I do it the other way! (With a pin gauge) Short runs, starting at the near end and pulling. It amounts to the same thing, though.

Mike.

 

[Jacob]

With a single pin gauge we were taught to push the gauge away from you but start near the end of the workpiece - marking say the last 10" , then the next10" nearer, etc so that each line runs into one made before - which starts accurately and any accidental run off will show up when the lines don't meet.
Difficult to describe. It avoids the pin wandering off slotted into the grain for the whole length - but if it does happen it'll just be for a short length and will show up. But once you get the knack they don't run off anyway.

Hello,

That's funny, I do it the other way! (With a pin gauge) Short runs, starting at the near end and pulling. It amounts to the same thing, though.

Mike.

Hmm - pulling can result in pulling away - it's much more solid and more natural to be pushing it on and forwards.

 

[DTR]

With a single pin gauge we were taught to push the gauge away from you but start near the end of the workpiece - marking say the last 10" , then the next10" nearer, etc so that each line runs into one made before - which starts accurately and any accidental run off will show up when the lines don't meet.
Difficult to describe. It avoids the pin wandering off slotted into the grain for the whole length - but if it does happen it'll just be for a short length and will show up. But once you get the knack they don't run off anyway.

Hello,

That's funny, I do it the other way! (With a pin gauge) Short runs, starting at the near end and pulling. It amounts to the same thing, though.

Mike.

Hmm - pulling can result in pulling away - it's much more solid and more natural to be pushing it on and forwards.

Surely the best way is to either push or pull in whichever direction is appropriate so that the grain pulls the pin into the work? A bit like planing up hill as opposed to planing against the grain

 

[ED65]

<cat | pigeons>

Surely the best plan is not use a conventional pin at all but instead to file the point so it's a mini knife edge (sort of) angled slightly just as with a cutting gauge so that the natural pull tugs the fence inwards.

 

[Racers]

+1 on the knife edge.
Its how I make all mine.

Pete

 

[Jacob]

<cat | pigeons>

Surely the best plan is not use a conventional pin at all but instead to file the point so it's a mini knife edge (sort of) angled slightly just as with a cutting gauge so that the natural pull tugs the fence inwards.

Clever solution to a non existent problem. You get a lot of that in woodwork!