The Rise of the Plain Chisels

[nabs]

I was reading A Glossary of Old Sheffield Trade Words and Dialect the other day, as you do, and found out that when bolsters were soldered on, rather than forged, they were said to be gobbed on
"... it may be a term of contempt indicating that such bolsters were nobbut stuck on we spit"

and that a bolster stone was a "narrow grindstone of very hard grit for grinding the bolsters of table knives, etc, and especially for removing the fashes".

(a "fash" is apparently a rough turned edge caused by filling).

Although not strictly relevant, I also learned that the board slung behind a grinder to act as a seat was known colloquially as an "arseboard"

 

[AndyT]

I've not got any old American chisels but I have had a look at what I can. There are sometimes horizontal marks around the bolster, but they match similar lines on the end of the blade. It looks as if the end of the blade and the bolster have both been finished on the same small grinding wheel. This does seem much more likely than hand filing .

I also found this picture of the sort of mechanical grinder that replaced the big old wheels, installed at Stanleys in the 60s. There are similar ones in current use in 'How It's Made' videos.

And Nabs - I think you've found a new way round the profanity filter!

But what was the procedure for making a separate bolster?

 

[D_W]

I've not got any old American chisels but I have had a look at what I can. There are sometimes horizontal marks around the bolster, but they match similar lines on the end of the blade. It looks as if the end of the blade and the bolster have both been finished on the same small grinding wheel. This does seem much more likely than hand filing .

I also found this picture of the sort of mechanical grinder that replaced the big old wheels, installed at Stanleys in the 60s. There are similar ones in current use in 'How It's Made' videos.

And Nabs - I think you've found a new way round the profanity filter!

But what was the procedure for making a separate bolster?

Literally just saw the video from the buck brothers factory yesterday (for maybe the 6th time) and saw that lapping machine. They made some sort of comment like it taking only 60 seconds to surface the bottoms of all of those chisels (but the video was lacking on showing the actual grinding).

Given how quick their process is, it would seem to be not so difficult to make a reasonable quality good profile chisel with little extra effort.

Those chisels (the yellow handled ones by buck) are quite nice looking above the bolster. It's still plastic, but I think they look quite nice - the blades are a bit clunky, but they're destined to be used dull on building sites (as a trade union carpenter told me a couple of months ago at a wedding "i can't remember the last time I sharpened my chisels"), so it probably doesn't matter much.

Not sure how I got on that tangent. Anyway, the only tang chisels I've found of recent manufacture over here are the continental european chisels - stubai, two cherries, pfeil. The latter two are bulky at the chisel sides, the stubai are quite nice and other than being modern looking, have the same kind of longer and lighter feel that the older English chisels had.

The iles mk2 chisels are otherwise nice, too (with a different look at the bolster, though), but they show up used here very seldom - and they're often not even available new. Years ago, someone sold me a set of octagonal handled chisels - 11 of them for $200. I wish I'd have kept them.

 

[AndyT]

The iles mk2 chisels are otherwise nice, too (with a different look at the bolster, though), but they show up used here very seldom - and they're often not even available new. Years ago, someone sold me a set of octagonal handled chisels - 11 of them for $200. I wish I'd have kept them.

According to this https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/sto ... -100-40.XX

Asley Iles Mk 2 bevel edge chisels are available in the US, though you may have to wait up to 8 weeks for delivery. But with the current rate of exchange, that shouldn't be too much hardship!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

"There are sometimes horizontal marks around the bolster, but they match similar lines on the end of the blade. It looks as if the end of the blade and the bolster have both been finished on the same small grinding wheel. This does seem much more likely than hand filing ." - Andy.

From looking at mine I would think this right.

 

[D_W]

The iles mk2 chisels are otherwise nice, too (with a different look at the bolster, though), but they show up used here very seldom - and they're often not even available new. Years ago, someone sold me a set of octagonal handled chisels - 11 of them for $200. I wish I'd have kept them.

According to this https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/sto ... -100-40.XX

Asley Iles Mk 2 bevel edge chisels are available in the US, though you may have to wait up to 8 weeks for delivery. But with the current rate of exchange, that shouldn't be too much hardship!

Yes, definitely available if you're willing to wait. We have at least two very good retailers who stock them (TFWW and The Best Things).

I just ordered a set from the UK instead. Funny that the "american pattern" chisels are something I have no use for. I think there is some habit over here of instructing people to grip chisels by the blade instead of the handle, and I did that at the outset, but have grown to prefer what was probably more traditional - gripping the handle and dragging a chisel to the mark instead of placing it with a pencil grip (slow and fatiguing to the fingers).

 

[nabs]

Here are some of mine - from left to right, I say
1) drop forged
2,3,4) hand forged, including a hand forged bolster
4) 'gobbed on' bolster

my theory ( and I am making this up!) about the mortice chisel is that there is too much metal in the bolster to have been moved with a hammer, and therefore it must have been a large oval washer that was pushed up the shank as far as it would go and then soldered on. Having said that, I really do not know what I am talking about so this may well be complete arseboards!

As others have reported, the striations on the octagon bolsters match those on the top of the shank so were presumably done on the same grinder. Quite possibly a bolster grinder! The chap who did the Marples 2nd from the left seem to have been having a very bad day on the grindstone.

cheers

 

[D_W]

I've been whining about wanting chisels with a forged bolster and a tang for a while, and of course, I have some, but they have taken me a while to get (at least in good makes).

I have often seen boutique tools for sale, and when I do, they often cause me to lurch a little bit in my chair. I saw a chisel similar to this one yesterday:

http://www.bluesprucetools.com/cgi/comm ... key=BC1.00

For sale somewhere for a little north of $100 (slightly different than this one, because it said), $150 list price if new. When I look at it, I see a cleanly finished piece of flat stock just stuffed into a ferrule. The one chisel used is more than the used set of four later-make ward tanged chisels that I managed to track down, those being my favorite chisels of all - they are older than the round bolsters.

The maker of these chisels is a very nice guy by all accounts, but I can't get on with the chisel itself. Someone did give me one of his marking knives as a gift, one of those really thin ones, and it is beautifully turned but too flexible for my taste.

Functionality wise, while I'm on a spree of curiosity, the stubai chisels are more to my taste, though they're drop forged, they are tanged, have a bolster, and the thick sides taper down to not quite old standards, but tolerable height at the cutting edge. Their new street price here is less than the one chisel above, new.

Some of the boutique tools, i really get it -there really isn't a finer bench plane than LN's version of the bedrocks. Some of them, though, I just don't understand the value proposition when it comes down to construction. I would feel obligated, if I made chisels, to try to at least shoot for what the best of the past did if I was going to ask a lot for them. If I were going to make double iron try planes for sale, I would probably charge almost $500 for one, too, but ...well, I'm not going to do that partially because I don't want to be a guy asking $500 for a plane. Even if I could find some buyers here in the states.

 

[D_W]

Here are some of mine - from left to right, I say
1) drop forged
2,3,4) hand forged, including a hand forged bolster
4) 'gobbed on' bolster

my theory ( and I am making this up!) about the mortice chisel is that there is too much metal in the bolster to have been moved with a hammer, and therefore it must have been a large oval washer that was pushed up the shank as far as it would go and then soldered on. Having said that, I really do not know what I am talking about so this may well be complete arseboards!

As others have reported, the striations on the octagon bolsters match those on the top of the shank so were presumably done on the same grinder. Quite possibly a bolster grinder! The chap who did the Marples 2nd from the left seem to have been having a very bad day on the grindstone.

cheers

I'm sure it's economics with the oval bolstered chisel. That, and (I've never taken one apart), I'd assume that it is slid on to the tang taper and thus becomes tight before it's soldered in place. The blacksmiths at CW over here have apparently devised that as a way to reproduce the smaller more finely made bolsters that show up on bench chisels and carving tools, but I'm assuming that's not how they were done on the originals of the smaller chisels, just the big ones like that mortise chisel.

You're lucky to have such good tanged chisels in country everywhere. Our older chisels here are quite often socket construction type chisels like the stanley 750, something I don't find a lot of favor for.

 

[D_W]

By the way, according to someone here who had a chisel break, I understand the ray iles chisels (oval bolstered) now to be welded at the bolster instead of a continuous run from cutting edge to the far end of the tang. Or to put it another way, it appears the tang of the chisel inside the handle is a separate piece from the business part of the chisel outside of the handle and they are stuck together as part of the making process.

 

[Biliphuster]

Over here, it's "wranglerstar", a jeep parts salesman who really doesn't know anything about woodworking

Master of cramming 2 minutes of content into a 15 minute video and vague half titles written in all capitals. I don't know why youtube insists on recommending him to me.

 

[JimB]

When did Marples stop advertising they are good to the last inch? I bought my blue chips over fifty years ago and still use them. At that time you could see the dimple showing they had been hardness tested before passing quality control.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

When did Marples stop advertising they are good to the last inch? I bought my blue chips over fifty years ago and still use them. At that time you could see the dimple showing they had been hardness tested before passing quality control.

Seems they still do - http://toolbank.com/0/p/MAR44418 - though someone should have a quiet word with the advertising copywriter about the meaning of the word "anneal"!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

=D>

 

[bugbear]

When did Marples stop advertising they are good to the last inch?

I don't know when/if they stopped, but they presumably started when they changed
to oven tempering from more localised heating/cooling.

Depending on the tool, you don't always want uniform hardness; even in a chisel,
you want the bolster/tang to be ductile.

BugBear

 

[Max Power]

I love the double-think when a forum/guru/blogger praises a tool for being
not super high quality, but excellent value, and loads of people seek it out,
driving the price up.

This ought to invalidate the original recommendation, but it
appears (empirically) not to.

So people are then buying a tool whose main merit was
low price at a high price. :?

Stanley 5001 chisels are a recent(ish) example of this.

BugBear

I've found 5001s to be excellent, capable of taking an edge that would split an atom. I used first used them 45yrs ago and am still fond of them

 

[johnnyb]

my own preference here is for a decent sized hit button. Blue chips always had a small plastic end. I prefer the sheffield Stanley's with a grey and yellow handle as I rarely have a glancing blow . the steel and grind is OK. I do like old footprints but they also have a smallish butt.
they have great simple drop forged steel( it does rust easily though)
many older run of the mill chisels can be a bit soft. they are what I call buttery. the best makes( and marples isn't one) can be outstanding great care being taken in manufacture.( w and p herring mathieson et al)