The Long Road Back

[Alf]

Rob, you're not really applying set at the root of the tooth are you?

Just out of interest, what would you folks think a reasonable charge for having a saw hand sharpened and set? A saw in good condition that is - ones in a mess are another matter...

Cheers, Alf

Edit: This person isn't frustrated by the saw set she has and is wondering what she's doing wrong - maybe not putting a micrometer to the saws was a good start... :wink:

 

[ByronBlack]

I would pay about £10 for a sharpen up of a reasonably good condition blade and maybe an hourly rate for a real pipper.. not sure if that makes me tight?

 

[woodbloke]

Alf - no, course not, slip of the fingers that's all :roll: It's just that me and Newt were talking about setting the teeth the other day and the root of the tooth was mentioned but thinking about it, it's only the top part that's set. Still doesn't get away from the unpalatable notion that there ain't a decent saw set commercially available at the mo' which will set teeth this fine (correct me please if I'm mistooken) - Rob

 

[Alf]

Rob, I thought it was probably a slip of the keyboard, but I worry in case someone else thought that's what they ought to be doing.

Personally I've only used an assortment of old sets, but as far as those available now go I believe MikeW recommends the blue Somax. As ever, I gather you have to studiously ignore the tpi settings. Anyway as an Eclipse owner you'll notice it looks just a little bit familiar.

BB, thanks for your thoughts; hopefully a few more opinions will be forthcoming so I won't comment on tightness or otherwise just yet. :wink:

Cheers, Alf

 

[bugbear]

Why is there a lack of saw doctors.

Because there isn't a high enough density of customers prepared to pay the rate needed to keep a saw doctor in business :-(

Or, put another way, how much would you be prepared pay for

* routine re-sharpening (AKA touch up)?

* sharpen and set?

* reshape and sharpen and set?

* retooth and sharpen and set?

BugBear

 

[pam niedermayer]

In the absence of an official saw set, why not try hammer (with pointy head) and anvil? Also, have you checked out the wrest style sets that seem to abound in the UK?

Pam

 

[ByronBlack]

Why is there a lack of saw doctors.

Because there isn't a high enough density of customers prepared to pay the rate needed to keep a saw doctor in business :-(

Or, put another way, how much would you be prepared pay for

* routine re-sharpening (AKA touch up)?

* sharpen and set?

* reshape and sharpen and set?

* retooth and sharpen and set?

BugBear

* routine re-sharpening (AKA touch up)? £10

* sharpen and set? £15

* reshape and sharpen and set? £20

* retooth and sharpen and set? £25

 

[lurker]

Byron,

No way could you make a living doing that at that price, remember the flaff you would have with collection & delivery too.

A few years ago I wanted to get my old Dad's (he could sharpen saws but to my eternal regret I did not take an interest until he had died) brass backed saw sharpened.

On spec I went into a saw sharpening place (scruffy round the back affair) where they did industrial blades. An old bloke served me - said he had not done a carpenters saw for donkeys years. Anyway he did it in his lunch break and charged a fiver. Cuts fine

Now want to learn how to do this and am trying to impose myself :shock: :shock: on several forum contributors.

 

[woodbloke]

Rob, I thought it was probably a slip of the keyboard, but I worry in case someone else thought that's what they ought to be doing.

Personally I've only used an assortment of old sets, but as far as those available now go I believe MikeW recommends the blue Somax. As ever, I gather you have to studiously ignore the tpi settings. Anyway as an Eclipse owner you'll notice it looks just a little bit familiar.

BB, thanks for your thoughts; hopefully a few more opinions will be forthcoming so I won't comment on tightness or otherwise just yet. :wink:

Cheers, Alf

How odd Alf, looks just like my Eclipse in the 'shop, has even got the same tpi settings (4-12) so how do you make it set smaller? FWIW I think I did see somewhere that there is a finer setting version of the same gauge going up to 24 tpi or so? - Rob

 

[lurker]

I have 2 eclipse sets
One has the eclipse name & number stamped inside the handle and the other the name & number are part of the casting.

I assume the former is newer ( Alf ??)
I think the markings for the sets are different.
(the one I think is the older has more detail & I think finer adjustment)

Not that I know what I'm talking about, you understand!!!

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

From memory, I used the (bronze) Eclipse on one 15 tpi dovetail saw at the 12 tpi setting and it turned out just fine. The amount of set appeared the same as that on my LN.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[woodbloke]

From memory, I used the (bronze) Eclipse on one 15 tpi dovetail saw at the 12 tpi setting and it turned out just fine. The amount of set appeared the same as that on my LN.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek - that's the same one as I've got...interesting, will have to have a trial on a gash el cheapo wot I've lurking somewhere - Rob

 

[Alf]

Yep, cast name and number will be older I think. Older Eclipse 77s seem to have finer plungers - later ones are rather more agricultural.

Rob, there's a coarser gold version - I seem to recall Mike saying you had to completely ignore LV's erroneous info now you come to mention it. As their info on saw files doesn't tally with anyone else's either I can only assume saw sharpening is one area where they're all at sea.

Cheers, Alf

 

[woodbloke]

Yep, cast name and number will be older I think. Older Eclipse 77s seem to have finer plungers - later ones are rather more agricultural.

Rob, there's a coarser gold version - I seem to recall Mike saying you had to completely ignore LV's erroneous info now you come to mention it. As their info on saw files doesn't tally with anyone else's either I can only assume saw sharpening is one area where they're all at sea.

Cheers, Alf

I assume then Alf that the blue one in the link is the finer set recommended by MikeW, but not available in the UK.
My Eclipse has the name cast into the inside of the handle (I assume it's an old one 'cos I bought it in the '70's) but the plunger looks to be about 2mm wide which still seems to be a bit agricultural to me :? - Rob

 

[Paul Chapman]

Seems to me that there would also be a good market if someone with enough expertise could produce "The Ultimate Saw Maintenance DVD".

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[woodbloke]

Seems to me that there would also be a good market if someone with enough expertise could produce "The Ultimate Saw Maintenance DVD".

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Paul - wonder who could do one of those :-k the person that comes to mind has recently done a really excellent little production on U-tube about sharpening plane blades with a hand grinder. Maybe if we could entice Speilberg over we could have ............Saws (cue the music) :lol: - Rob

 

[Paul Chapman]

(cue the music) :lol:

Don't you mean "cue the parrots"? :lol: :lol:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[ByronBlack]

Or maybe run a short 1 day course.. works well for Luckhurst and Charlesworth!

 

[Benchwayze]

Hi Alf,

I can't get the 'quote' thing to work:
So, Alf said:

Nothing to stop you putting a pistol grip handle on the Gents saw - won't give it a brass back though, it's true.

Cheers, Alf.

Okay Alf,

That's true, except my Gents saws do have brass backs.
I could fit 'pistol-grip' handles. I have actually considered this, but how would I drill through the saw blade (tool-steel) to accommodate the fixing nuts/bolts, without softening the metal? Surely I would have to do this, which would ruin the saw? Unless things have developed so much that I can now obtain drill bits to do this without softening the metal. In which case I plead my failure to keep up to date. (John)

I like the 'hound's tooth dovetails Byron. Excellent work. I was always taught that these were 'cogged' or 'decorative' dovetails. But what's in a name? Nice going. It illustrates the point though. Sometimes, dovetails can be used as a 'feature', as well as a necessity. (No criticism intended .)

John

 

[Benchwayze]

Wow!

What have I started....
From long ago, in the joiners' shop where I was employed, it was common practice to take as much set as possible OFF a dovetail saw. It made the saw difficult to control, and harder to produce a cut, but it produced a much finer kerf. But that was back in the days of steel-back Tyzak, Buck and Ryan, or Spear and Jackson saws!

I need something better if I am to satisfy my own standards. Hence my enquiry!


I am off to top that old saw and start again; price be blowed!

Thanks folks.

John