The law is an ASS

[devonwoody]

I've got a grumble.

Tablesaws in Europe are not manufactured or importation allowed into Europe with dado cutting facilities etc. etc. etc.

However my tablesaw tilts to the right hand side which also is the location of my rip fence to the blade as well.

If you tilt the blade to the right and cut an angled piece of timber the offcut jams against the rip fence and can trap. This we all know is a risk of a dangerous and could be fatal kickback.

So chopping off of fingers is not allowed but life and limb are still permissable.

CRAZY.

 

[Waka]

I've got a grumble.

Tablesaws in Europe are not manufactured or importation allowed into Europe with dado cutting facilities etc. etc. etc.

DW

Are you classing us as part of Europe here, because if that is the case then the above statement is not correct regarding importartion?

The other question that springs to mind is, how many table saws are manufactured in Europe.

 

[Woodythepecker]

Devonwoody wrote:

Tablesaws in Europe are not manufactured or importation allowed into Europe with dado cutting facilities etc.etc.etc.

Although i believed that what you are saying was true, it appears that the importation part of this is not exactly right, because Woodford sell the Xcalibur range of saws and they take dado head cutters or at least Philly's 806 does.
You can also import from the US the same Delta tablesaw that Norm use's.

Regards

Woody

 

[DaveL]

However my tablesaw tilts to the right hand side which also is the location of my rip fence to the blade as well.

Devon,

Can you not move the fence to the other side of the blade? I can on my wadkin, works really well. 8)

 

[Jake]

Although i believed that what you are saying was true, it appears that the importation part of this is not exactly right, because Woodford sell the Xcalibur range of saws and they take dado head cutters or at least Philly's 806 does.

It isn't right. You can import them, but they wont get CE marked without being able to stop a dado head in the 10 seconds allowed, or having a proper SUVA type guard that can be used with a dado head. Xcaliburs are not CE marked, so there is no point in blaming "the law" for not imposing requirements which are being avoided anyway. As a hobbyist the absence of a CE mark is neither here nor there, but the HSE would be down on a business that had an accident on a non-CE marked saw like a tone of bricks, as would the injured party's solicitors, no doubt.

Useful summary here http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis16.pdf.

The requirement appears to be for an optional lower fence section for angled cuts, although they appear to have confused the rationale a bit. My festool saw has this, and it is right tilt (although the fence can be swapped to LHS as well).

t would be interesting to see if there is anyone who has a modern CE marked saw which doesn't have a low fence section, it may well be something that "the law" does require, and which is also being avoided by not attempting to CE mark chinese machinery that is primarily intended for the US market with their antiquated health and safety law and regulation. Is your Record CE marked, DW?

 

[Woodythepecker]

Cheers Jake that has sorted the problem out.

I know for a fact that anyone running a business cannot fit dado head cutters, and i also believed that dealers were not allowed to sell DIY type table saws which accepted them. But when Philly got the Xcaliber and one or two other members purchased the Delta Unisaw, i thought that i had got it wrong. But your explanation has made things clearer.

Regards

Woody

 

[Philly]

Well I don't really want to get dragged into the "D" Wars again but things aren't always clear cut. You can use a dado in a pro shop-the HSE just requires that you use an adequate guard.
The Woodford folk tell me that the majority of their saws are snapped up by professionals (double glazing, joinerys, etc). Interesting, eh? :roll:
And my 806 easily stops within 10 secs-with and without a dado set. It has no brake but stops nice and quick.
When it comes to tools-decide what you want it for, research the market and buy the tool YOU want.
Be safe
Philly

 

[devonwoody]

Learnt something from the thread.

Yes I do have a low angle fence accessory, so I have now learnt what that is for, also I cannot have my fence on the left hand side of the blade.
However a kick back which involved a 12" pice of 2x1" coming back at you at ?????mph could certainly enter just like a javelin in the soft parts.

So kickbacks are allowed but many manufacturers will not offer the extended arbour.

 

[RogerS]

...and if the rules say that it has to stop within 10 seconds then just how much soft flesh can it chew through in that time? Can't really see the logic but then as dw says in his thread title.... :wink:

 

[Jake]

The Woodford folk tell me that the majority of their saws are snapped up by professionals (double glazing, joinerys, etc). Interesting, eh? :roll:

Good value machinery will attract professionals as much as anyone else. They are being stupid all the same, as their insurers would wash their hands if an accident did occur (even if it had nothing to do with the fact that the saw did or did not meet CE requirements). Health and Safety would close them down if there was an accident, and they'd stand no chance of defending a personal injury action. Really dumb move for a business, even if they do save £500 or so on the machinery. There's no legislation preventing stupid people being businessmen though.

All entirely irrelevant for a hobbyist.

 

[Jake]

Well I don't really want to get dragged into the "D" Wars again but things aren't always clear cut. You can use a dado in a pro shop-the HSE just requires that you use an adequate guard.

You can import them, but they wont get CE marked without being able to stop a dado head in the 10 seconds allowed, or having a proper SUVA type guard that can be used with a dado head.

Pretty much the same answer but the HSE won't allow the use of non-CE marked machinery.

 

[Freetochat]

Like everything in law, a rule is written, and then thousands is spent employing lawyers to decide in court what the rule means. As the H&S agency, all they do is interpret the law as they see it. The same goes for the way in which they enforce their interpretation. Whilst not in woodworking, I have worked with the H&S, and have seen some various interpretation coming out of their offices. Sitting on fences can be very difficult, but if all else fails advise against it.

As to Dado's, buying a Felder or Hammer is a way forward. Dado cutters can be fitted, and I understand with complete CE compliance.

John

 

[Anonymous]

Just a thought, I have two dado heads - one of the Freud Superdado units (fabulous piece of work) and the other is a cheapo Delta 'wobble' dado. The wobble dado is cr*p, but will cut a quick slot and does have it's uses from time to time in carpentry (but not good joinery). However, the nice thing about it is that the arbour is only just about 1/2" thick. Would that fit on a CE compliant saw?

Just wondering. Oh yes, my tablesaw doesn't have any braking, so it takes for ever to stop!

 

[jonny boy]

Hello,

I spoke to Woodford some time ago about the subject of non CE approved machinery being retailed in this country, and if what Philly say's about them selling to various businesses and professional tradesmen is the case then there is definetly a problem. Woodford are entitled to sell this machinery to people who will only be hobby orientated. If Woodford knowingly sell a non CE approved machine to a company or organisation that intends to have employees or other persons use this equipment, then they are breaking the law. So the best thing to do would be to send me the machines that fall into this catagory and i'll use them only for hobby purposes!

Cheers,
jon.