The joys of electric car ownership!

[Keith Cocker]

Same could be said for Guardian?!!

The Guardian do manage to print the truth a good deal of the time and I’d rather live in the world of Guardian readers than DM.

 

[Jameshow]

The Guardian do manage to print the truth a good deal of the time and I’d rather live in the world of Guardian readers than DM.

What they don't print also might be the truth too.!

 

[ey_tony]

The Guardian do manage to print the truth a good deal of the time and I’d rather live in the world of Guardian readers than DM.

Guardian truth?
It all depends if you want to be fed your news leaning to the left. It's a ghastly newspaper and makes even the DM look like a positively upmarket broadsheet.

 

[Keith Cocker]

What they don't print also might be the truth too.!

Can’t argue with that

 

[Keith Cocker]

Guardian truth?
It all depends if you want to be fed your news leaning to the left. It's a ghastly newspaper and makes even the DM look like a positively upmarket broadsheet.

Hmmm. I Think I’d trust my judgement on that more than yours then.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Newspaper premier league

Financial Times - accurate reporting benefits economic decision making
Guardian - thoughtful reporting, albeit with an agenda
Times - pricing itself out of existence
Telegraph - thinks that things were better when Britain had an empire
Mail, Mirror, Sun - Andrex does a better job

 

[Dave Moore]

Red diesel can no longer be used in the UK for plant ie building site equipment, only "white" diesel, which is another tax on building homes.

Farmers and fairs are exempt from this.

 

[clogs]

red D is also used in some oil fired boilers.......also some use a parafin substitute.....

my boiler will run both oil and wood, the last of the 500ltr of red went into my forklift and that side of the boiler was disconected.....
we only burn wood now as I beleive the TENT DWELLERS have enough of my money....

also, as the f/l has an old fashioned D engine it runs/gets a 50/50 mix of road fuel and veggy oil when prices allow.....

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Hmmm. I Think I’d trust my judgement on that more than yours then.

I wouldn't.

 

[treeturner123]

Perhaps we should look at 'Whole Life' cost both financial and carbon.

Although obviously hated by many, an article in Saturday's DM was, I think fair when it pointed out that, at present without any additional tax (the next government will HAVE to find some way of covering the vast fuel tax), the 'Break-even' mileage, taking into account cost of materials, building and running, for an electric car in this country is about 80,000 miles. Much less for petrol and diesel. However, it is estimated that current batteries have a life expectancy of no more than 100,000 miles. BTW, the BE point in China and India is never as they use coal and oil for such a significant amount of electric generation.

I've just bought a second had Skoda Octavia diesel to replace the last which had 287,000 mile on the clock. The only reason for the change was that the driver's side sills had rusted to nothing due to 'salt' on ice.

 

[Agent_zed]

Perhaps we should look at 'Whole Life' cost both financial and carbon.

Although obviously hated by many, an article in Saturday's DM was, I think fair when it pointed out that, at present without any additional tax (the next government will HAVE to find some way of covering the vast fuel tax), the 'Break-even' mileage, taking into account cost of materials, building and running, for an electric car in this country is about 80,000 miles. Much less for petrol and diesel. However, it is estimated that current batteries have a life expectancy of no more than 100,000 miles. BTW, the BE point in China and India is never as they use coal and oil for such a significant amount of electric generation.

I've just bought a second had Skoda Octavia diesel to replace the last which had 287,000 mile on the clock. The only reason for the change was that the driver's side sills had rusted to nothing due to 'salt' on ice.

Whilst whole life considerations need to be taken into account, your current thinking seems to assume a constant supply of fossil fuels.

Perhaps there is a very real and obvious reason that we are being pushed so heavily towards renewable energy production and EV, that being that fossil fuels are finite and particularly in small countries such as the UK we don't have a lot of other options. We can argue whether we are likely to find more and eek it out a little longer but ultimately they will be used up. The closer you get to the end the more the cost will rise. Maybe there is 30/40/50 years left (globally but not in each nation) but do you think in 15 - 20 years time when some of the wells are drying up they will still sell at the same price?

Even if we take climate change and pollution out of the mix, fossil fuels are finite! This is indisputable but somehow neatly forgotten?! Some countries will have more and some won't have any and will be forced to buy at inflated prices. What will the break even point be on a diesel car when diesel is 5 x the price and climbing.

Governments won't be prioritizing private transport when the remaining petrol chemicals are required for food , weapons and medical production etc.

I may be adding 1+1 and getting 3 but look at countries like Saudi Arabia, they are heavily pushing tourism and trying to diversify. Perhaps because when the oil runs out all they will have is a lot of sand.

I'm pretty sure the above is playing a part in the financial decisions being taken by governments rather than some conspiracy 'woke green agenda' by leftists (or similar vernacular whenever sustainable energy is discussed in the papers).

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I may be adding 1+1 and getting 3 but look at countries like Saudi Arabia, they are heavily pushing tourism and trying to diversify. Perhaps because when the oil runs out all they will have is a lot of sand.

They're probably worrying more about their sales dropping than the oil running out.

 

[Nick.]

Interesting thread - thanks all

I'm pretty much being forced into getting an electric by government BIK rates. It's that or just keep getting taxed 480 out of pay packet a month for a solid diesel!

Having been fortunate to have had company cars for almost last 30 years (which used to be a real perk) - I'm dreading going electric with some of the long distances I need to do...

Wave to me when I'm out of battery sitting in the middle of a sodding roundabout

Nick

 

[Nick.]

Yep, seems to be a familiar story with EVs in the trade. Average retail values have fallen month on month for last year or so. Demand is up by a few percent but supply has shot up 180% so the used market is flooded with them and nobody wants them enough to stabilise the market. Some models are now worth less, by some margin, than their petrol/diesel equivalent which doesn't reflect well on the premium price paid when new. I've heard some used dealer networks have told their buyers not to source EVs, hard to profit from and some can sit in stock for twice as long as similar petrol/diesel model.

Hi @Noel , hope you are good mate. I know that you know your stuff in this market. hope I can get a good lease deal if there is over supply, but just think I'll look like an eco **** in a tesla & they look a bit like noddy cars so have so far ruled that out (despite best charger network) - ah I just wish I could get a normal car again and not get battered & taxed to the hilt...

 

[Nick.]

Haha - I remember swear words are corrected to 'pineapple'

 

[Scruples]

While EVs are still in their infancy, and if they are the future, if people want independent mobility, then it must be true that the technology is still young and. like TV, will seem too silly and expensive but will develop and will prevail with whatever practical energy sources are used.
It's not a lot of good being anti-EV when it is inevitabe.

 

[clogs]

nah
eventually 90% will go electric and when u think it's a done deal some other wizz bang device will come along making EV's obsolete .....
it's all a con.....

I like the idea of Elon Musk n Tesla but just lately he dropped the prices quite a lot........
so just how much profit is there in an EV......

what should happen where poss all private motorists should use the middle finger to those in charge and go by foot, cycle or public transport......
then see what happens after a year.........
we just need politions with 1/2 a noggin of common sence........the world is going nut's.......

 

[Scruples]

nah
eventually 90% will go electric and when u think it's a done deal some other wizz bang device will come along making EV's obsolete .....
it's all a con.....

I like the idea of Elon Musk n Tesla but just lately he dropped the prices quite a lot........
so just how much profit is there in an EV......

what should happen where poss all private motorists should use the middle finger to those in charge and go by foot, cycle or public transport......
then see what happens after a year.........
we just need politions with 1/2 a noggin of common sence........the world is going nut's.......

Hardly a 'con', just normal technological evolution, with the added incentive to move away from fossil fuels and leave oil for the manufacture of durable and re-usable plastics. This is where the protesters fall flat on their pious behinds.

Shunning public transport en masse will never happen. I didn't get to retirement to sit on a bus that might turn up and might get me close to my destination without the wherewithal to carry a load of timber.

 

[Agent_zed]

Hardly a 'con', just normal technological evolution, with the added incentive to move away from fossil fuels and leave oil for the manufacture of durable and re-usable plastics. This is where the protesters fall flat on their pious behinds.

Shunning public transport en masse will never happen. I didn't get to retirement to sit on a bus that might turn up and might get me close to my destination without the wherewithal to carry a load of timber.

No we should stick with a technology that has been around for 100 years from an industry that actively bought and destroyed tram systems to force consumers to buy their product and in the US marketed the term 'Jaywalker' to make it the fault of the person wanting to cross the street getting knocked down.

Oh and let's not forget when certain cars had deadly faults but it was deemed more cost effective to pay out compensation to the families than recall the cars. Oh and of course cheating the emmisions testing in recent history.

I like the idea of Elon Musk n Tesla but just lately he dropped the prices quite a lot

Elon Musk is a grifter and is doing nothing useful for the environment other than clever marketing. Tesla only makes a profit from selling carbon credits and getting tax breaks all so Elon can build rockets to pollute the atmosphere on a greater scale. Tesla's are in no way the answer to the problem, they are luxury executive cars.

 

[Agent_zed]

They're probably worrying more about their sales dropping than the oil running out.

Maybe, in the short term. But seeing as oil within the bounds of each nation is finite, once it is gone it is gone. There is no arguing this. This is the reality. How long they have left might be debatable but it will run out, and as it does it will become harder to extract (and therefore more expensive). How long for each nation will be hard to know as they are unlikely to want to share that information and it is also hard to pinpoint all oil wells. But it will happen.