THE FOURTH OF JULY

[Spectric]

So how long do you think it will take to "fix the police" enough to make a difference ?

Less time than the NHS !

 

[RobinBHM]

having a referendum which is binding for eternity

I see what what you did there

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Less time than the NHS !

The best way to make an immediate difference to key public services - NHS, police, education - is to reduce the numbers leaving. Extra pay, better conditions, retention allowance etc.

This will keep numbers up much quicker than recruiting more which takes time, training and money and could take 2 years +.

The common denominator is money - more public servants need to be paid - where will it come from.

 

[mark w]

Well it looks like they have sorted out the overcrowded prison system, taking the conservative idea of early release and now looking to let out even more which seems a bit ironic considering Starmers past was about justice. I would have thought fixing the police would have taken higher priority in order to make the streets safer rather than doing the opposite.


As has been said Starmer did not win on merit or policy but by default, people blamed the conservatives for everything whilst forgetting that we went through Covid and an energy crisis and Starmer was promising to fix everything. I think without reform then labour would still have won but with a smaller majority of seats as it seems the conservative voters failed to vote or turned to lib dem / reform.

Nobody forgot about the pandemic or the energy crisis, what we all should remember is how badly the Conservatives dealt with it all, lets not forget the other major crisis, the PPE scandal, oh and Barnard Castle, Partygate, OAPs returned to care homes even with a supposed Ring of Steel, lies, lies and more lies, I could go on.
The Tories used the Pandemic as an excuse for poor governance, Johnson is a pathological liar, Truss, need I say any more, Sunak in spite of his expensive education is a dimwit, millions to the French and then the Rwanda scheme, the reintroduction of National Service what a clown.

 

[Jacob]

Pessimistic view of Starmer coming up (quelle surprise!) that he will win for Labour but with far fewer votes than Corbyn in 2017.
In fact it's looking a dead cert at the mo, I might a few bob on it.

So I was right then! But fewer votes even than 2019!
Pre-election seems such a long time ago.
It occurred to me that Labour is now the "conservative" party; promising to manage things but without changing the status quo. This used to be the fundamental Tory party raison d'etre; https://www.alistairlexden.org.uk/news/why-do-we-need-change
The tories went wrong in trying to adopt an ideology i.e. "neo-liberalism" which was doomed to fail.
They should have stuck to what they do best, i.e. doing nothing, but carefully.
OTOH The left is based on the realisation that managing things without changes to the status quo is impossible.

 

[Jacob]

The point was he was effectively unelectable.

What does that mean? He was elected leader, he did produce a big swing back to Labour.
Yes he didn't make it to PM but neither did Miliband, and Brown and others lost elections. Were they "effectively unelectable"?
It's odd how the anti Corbynistas keep going on about him. I think they are in denial about how the party itself sabotaged his chances and they are now looking for excuses for treachery, false accusations and missed opportunities.
It's OK chaps you can relax he is now history (almost!). What we now have to consider is the newly revived "conservative" party in power, which used to be the Labour party.

 

[Glitch]

If rejoining the EU is a such a big priority then why didn't the LibDems win a majority?

Or why didn't someone organise independent candidates just like the pro-Palestine movement.

A bit more organisation and action instead of constant whinging and whining might be the way forward.

 

[RobinBHM]

I would have thought fixing the police would have taken higher priority in order to make the streets safer rather than doing the opposite

I understand the logic here.

Are you saying rehabilitation increases crime?

What makes you think early release / lowering rate of imprisonment makes the streets less safe.

 

[John Brown]

would have thought fixing the police would have taken higher priority in order to make the streets safer rather than doing the opposite.

Why do you think it's an "either or"?
Maybe it's possible to do both.
Take people out of prison and make them work as police officers.

 

[Jake]

The referendum was FPTP or A.V. not any other form of P.R.

True. But then again the Brexit ref was just about EU membership and yet it has been enshrined as some sort of vote against membership of all sorts of European institutions (eg Single Market).

 

[RobinBHM]

Goverment stats are collected and recorded by the Civil Service, Robin. The Civil Service would be happier without government and show no allegiance to parties.

The information presented on .gov sites since 2019 has been propaganda

The data maybe true, but it has been cherry picked and presented in a way to give a false impression.

If you want a lengthy and detailed analysis I can do that, but TLDR I can tell you brexit info on .gov websites is not an honest representation.

Here is one example: on RoW exports, why did the govt include traded gold. A = so that it gave the false impression that RoW exports had grown faster than exports to EU.

 

[RobinBHM]

If climate protestors were really sincere in what they preach, they would lead their lives in a very different way from everyone else, but they don't. The drive diesel cars, have gas central heating, take long haul flights, use modern technology - mobiles phones, internet etc

Do you have evidence or is that just an opinion?

Many climate protestors do as much as they can to minimise their carbon footprint, for example many avoid flying

 

[Jacob]

..........

If climate protestors were really sincere in what they preach, they would lead their lives in a very different way from everyone else, but they don't. The drive diesel cars, have gas central heating, take long haul flights, use modern technology - mobiles phones, internet etc. ......

Nonsense.
First of all they aren't "preaching" they are trying to attract attention to the science and the urgency of catastrophe coming our way.
Many do try to live their lives in different ways but this isn't the issue, what is needed is massive state intervention on all fronts, to make it possible and obligatory to live life differently.
Individual actions are important but protest probably the most productive.
We need more of it, on the street, in the ballot box, everywhere.
Personally I think it is all far too late and the world is changing drastically.

 

[Jacob]

....

I believe that the culture, capabilities and behaviours of the private sector can add real benefits to the quality and value of services delivered.

Could add benefits except that the profit imperative means no help for those without enough money. This is the basic fact behind the public sector on all fronts. It's very very simple.

The assumption that state control alone delivers better is a dogma driven arrogance.

Nobody quite says that. You are just spouting a bit of dogma of your own. The point about the state sector is that it delivers where the private sector often fails to deliver anything at all.
This is why we have the state.
This is why approaching 50% of GDP in modern states is public sector spending.

 

[Jacob]

We can talk about which is delusory when we compare the outcome of this election to 2017 and 2019. And re the causes, well yes, that is the point. You need to win lots of individual seats, not overall national share of votes per se. That's where building broader coalitions of voters rather than just appealing to a committed fanbase counts.

But Starmer did not build a broader coalition, he did the opposite and he lost votes in terms of turnover. and a few dead cert seats too.
Luckily the tories lost more of both.
He didn't do as well as Blair and look how long that golden boy lasted! Starmer's career could be even shorter, unless he really pulls something out of the bag, other than hot air.

 

[Spectric]

What makes you think early release / lowering rate of imprisonment makes the streets less safe.

The high rate of re-offending gives little confidence, low level crime has become a way of life such as shoplifting which is really nothing more than robbery and if you know that the chance of being locked up is very low then you have removed the detterent as well.

Personally I think it is all far too late and the world is changing drastically.

Cannot agree more, it is not as if this is new information that has suddenly taken us by surprise as Al Gores book in 2006 the " Inconvenient truth " laid it all out and even back then he said it can be solved if we had the will to do so.

 

[Jacob]

The high rate of re-offending gives little confidence, low level crime has become a way of life such as shoplifting which is really nothing more than robbery and if you know that the chance of being locked up is very low then you have removed the detterent as well.

Crude, overcrowded and underinvested prison system fails to rehabilitate and generates more crime, according to the experts.

 

[Jacob]

This is interesting:
https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/left-of-labour-general-election-results-2024/

 

[Spectric]

Crude and underinvested prison system fails to rehabilitate and generates more crime, according to the experts.

I suppose you can divide the reasons behind crime into career criminals who probably are not interested in rehabilitation and those who found themselves in a desperate situation due to the cost of living and saw no way out. It has often been said that if you send a naive first timer to prison they just get educated by the others and it starts them on a life of crime.

 

[Krome10]

Keir Starmer and gratuities... What do folks think of this?