THE FOURTH OF JULY

[Keith Cocker]

 

[sploo]

There is little to gain for the country from going back.

Tell that to all the truckers sitting at customs. To all the small businesses that have seen increased costs and paperwork. To the people of NI. To the farmers struggling for seasonal workers.

It's not even like it achieved the claims of reducing immigration. Not only did that fail, there's frequently been talk about allowing people in (to cover shortages in the UK); but of course it doesn't work the other way - so we literally reduced our own freedom of movement and not (so much) the other way round.

The big problem is that if we rejoined it would almost certainly not be under the same generous terms that we had before; so we (as a nation) achieved nothing but self harm.

 

[selectortone]

Tell that to all the truckers sitting at customs. To all the small businesses that have seen increased costs and paperwork. To the people of NI. To the farmers struggling for seasonal workers.

I'd add to that list:

Me. Paying more for fresh produce that is less fresh than it used to be.

 

[Jacob]

Sitting typing this in France. Locmairaquer to be precise. Nowhere special.
Counted zero potholes so far in 200km main and minor roads.
River, sea, tap water clean.
Local food in local market spectacularly superior to anything you'd find in UK.
Why/when did Britain become laughing stock and poor man of Europe?
I blame Thatcher and all who followed after her.
Most of all I blame "the unwoke" who have worked so hard to keep Britain a dull and miserable place, with Farage, Brexit, Reform and all that cr*ap.

 

[Keith Cocker]

Interesting political fact. Nigel Farage has only one testicle having lost one in an accident and he shares this physical characteristic with another right winger. You live and learn.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2...ve-only-one-testicle-german-researcher-claims

 

[JSW]

One too many if you ask me

 

[Jacob]

Interesting political fact. Nigel Farage has only one testicle having lost one in an accident and he shares this physical characteristic with another right winger. You live and learn.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2...ve-only-one-testicle-german-researcher-claims

Now you tell us!

 

[Adam W.]

There maybe some truth in that. After all, the result shocked Parliament so it's not difficult to see how they can, in their eyes, or the eyes of the industries that fund the parties, manage to placate the furious backers by altering the original Brexit manifesto to suit the wrong people.

The biggest obstacle to Brexit was the pandemic which caused a sudden downturn in the world economy and upturn in national expenditure to cope. At least, in area, the UK did better than most countries.

We had Brexit. The people decided, democratically, to opt out of an organisation they never voted for. The Common Market was acceptable, the EU was a step too far for the population.

It's obvious what the majority of Remainers are. They lost control of the government for a moment and the people spoke.

The biggest obstacle to Brexit is that it is unworkable.

 

[Jacob]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ourse-for-lowest-share-of-the-vote-since-1945
Difficult decision. On the one hand how much you think Sunak is a useless berk and the tories utter failures. On the other how much you simply hate and distrust Starmer.

 

[Jameshow]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ourse-for-lowest-share-of-the-vote-since-1945
Difficult decision. On the one hand how much you think Sunak is a useless berk and the tories utter failures. On the other how much you simply hate and distrust Starmer.

I don't believe that most vote for big parties in GE, local elections favour smaller parties where local issues and smaller turn outs have a play...

 

[John Brown]

Much as I despise Nigel Farage, I am disinclined to mock him for his testicular deficit. Although I can't help wondering whether he takes some comfort from his affinity with you know who.
My old school chum Chris C, who played the guitar and sang while I accompanied him on the tin sandwich, made light of the injury he sustained in the course of his Saturday job, which left him blind in one eye, by reflecting that all the good bluesmen were blind, and now he was halfway there.

 

[curryjunkie]

Farage was interviewed on LBC this morning. He insists that Brexit is a success story whose failure is down to implementation incompetence by the Tory party.

I think him delusional - but he is a very effective communicator whose views will resonate with many.

The entire Brexit case was characterised by spin and slogans. Facts and logic counted for little as Remainers found on polling day.

There is a lot in common with current GE campaigns - what separates Tory from Labour economically is marginal trivia. Changes in tax regimes and spending which may total (say) £20bn pa is less than 1% of UK GDP of £2274bn.

Neither has any radical or transformational ideas - slightly tuned more of the same. Labour poll lead is overwhelmingly down to emotion (they are not Tories), not that they have fundamentally and materially better ideas (difficult to see much difference at all).

This may be at the heart of why Reform are picking up a lot of support:

• they have sound bites not policies - simple to understand
• they communicate clear intentions without spin - unlike the establishment parties
• alienating those who don't agree with them is an acceptable price to be paid for the support of those who do

the reason they are "simple to understand" is because there is no detail or substance to any of their policies. the average reform voter is thick as a plank, so when they hear 50billion in savings through"efficiencies" they think its a workable plan.

 

[curryjunkie]

We got a lot of raw materials from the empire but are still sitting on huge coal reserves.


Brexit was a starting point and you have to move on to undertake the journey to some destination, hanging around at the start means nothing will be achieved which is why we are not benefiting from Brexit, they find comfort at the starting line but are afraid of what lies ahead.


That would be a good outcome but instead we will have to wait until Starmer is in number 10 before discovering just how much damage he can do, but we get some idea when you hear they want to apply capital gains tax to your home. I think after 5 years of labour, with the conservatives still fresh in the mind then it might well be time for Reform because otherwise we will just continue the back and forth motion where the average is zero as we sink deeper.



Don't fall for that one, the reason people are not happy is that brexit has only happened on paper, the government has never moved forward and taken full advantage of it and in that process has destroyed itself. The solution is to work harder to get more involved with the east, India, China etc and become more part of what will become both the worlds economic and military super powers and stick a finger up at the Eu.

the application of capitol gains to the family home has already been debunked.

 

[curryjunkie]

It's not going to be that long before we vote to rejoin. I give it ten years.

i think double that, and it will be an incremental process, those who voted leave apart from the minority who admit they fell for a con job, will dig their heels in and insist "it wasnt done right" see examples in this thread, caution on the part of labour to even mention the subject tells you how sensitive an issue it still is. indeed large parts of the country voted for johnson to just get it over and done with , they were averse to all the arguments, and i cant see much appetite for bringing the whole thing back up with a push for rejoin until a large chunk of older voters have fallen off the perch and shifted the demographics of the country. the effects of brexit have been described as a slow puncture rather than an engine faliure, long and drawn out, and the rejoin process described by political and economic analysts as a series of small steps ,that eventually get britain back to roughly where it was before people decided to board the good ship clusterf**k.

 

[curryjunkie]

Highly regarding geo political analysts in the US (Pete Zeihan) think the EU cannot and will not last.

i watched an old video of his on youtube giving predictions for the following 5 years, half of them never happened or turned out the opposite of what he predicted, he has a scattergun approach, and some stuff he gets right, some wrong.

 

[TRITON]

 

[Scruples]

Tell that to all the truckers sitting at customs. To all the small businesses that have seen increased costs and paperwork. To the people of NI. To the farmers struggling for seasonal workers.

It's not even like it achieved the claims of reducing immigration. Not only did that fail, there's frequently been talk about allowing people in (to cover shortages in the UK); but of course it doesn't work the other way - so we literally reduced our own freedom of movement and not (so much) the other way round.

The big problem is that if we rejoined it would almost certainly not be under the same generous terms that we had before; so we (as a nation) achieved nothing but self harm.

You forgot the fishermen; nobody said that leaving the EU would not be without problems. It takes time to unpick the mess that is the EU membership and all the laws and restrictions it enforced. Sadly, the problems were exacerbated by Covid and slowed the process.

The UK is a better place and will continue to expand its trade with world countries. The EU decided, deliberately, to punish the UK to set an example to other EU nations. That will fade as new trade deals increase between the UK and individual member states. The EU states are suffering the same problems.

Getting back in now would be disastrous for the UK and for the party that managed it. Besides, the government made the decision based on the referendum and it would be a brave move to reverse that decision at this stage. Moving forward is the best and most workable option for the future.

I understand the gripes of industry and businesses but the country spoke.

 

[Jacob]

You forgot the fishermen; nobody said that leaving the EU would not be without problems.

No true.
"Liam Fox has said a post-Brexit free trade deal with the EU should be the “easiest in human history”, but insisted that the UK could survive without one"

It takes time to unpick the mess that is the EU membership and all the laws and restrictions it enforced.

If true in the first place - better done from within the EU as an active member

The UK is a better place and will continue to expand its trade with world countries.

No it is not and so far has failed to expand trade

The EU decided, deliberately, to punish the UK to set an example to other EU nations.

The UK decided to punish itself......yawn.....

 

[Jameshow]

Looks like threads run it's course!
Anyone one know the best way to sharpen a plane....!

 

[Keith Cocker]

but the country spoke.

It was a fart not a word.