The Best Chairs Ever Designed!

[Jacob]

Mick - no, it's not just you.
Jacob -yes, if it were designed by Fred Bloggs down the road, it would be historically unimportant. It only has value because of who designed it, not because it's neccessarily any good.

Yes you've got it. In a similar way F Bacon's signature might have more value than Fred Bloggs', to those who value these things, even if F Bloggs' handwriting was utterly exquisite and perfect.

 

[Jacob]

If the "right" person farted, some people would be expressing their admiration for such an amazing piece of nebulous art and design

unfortunately that is so true LOL

Well a fart 'collector' might value it, but wouldn't necessarily rate it highly as a fart in it's own right!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

It always amuses me to read headlines such as - "The Blue Cube" bought last year by the Upitsownass Gallery for£50,000,000, and believed to be a Picasso, has been proved to have been painted by his next door neighbour's child's gibbon. It's value is now estimated to be in the region of £1.49p.
Oh, how I feel sorry for them.

 

[Jacob]

It always amuses me to read headlines such as - "The Blue Cube" bought last year by the Upitsownass Gallery for£50,000,000, and believed to be a Picasso, has been proved to have been painted by his next door neighbour's child's gibbon. It's value is now estimated to be in the region of £1.49p.
Oh, how I feel sorry for them.

All 'collectors', including toolies, can fall into the same trap.
It's a good thing really, as it re-distributes wealth downwards. Damien Hirsts fall in value and the owners (people with far too much money and no sense), become subsantially poorer.

 

[Steve Maskery]

I think that the problem lies in the word "best". Many of the "best" chairs were good principally for the designer's ability to use new materials or techniques. That in itself has a value, even if the chair itself is not that comfortable or to any particular person's taste. Of course, that doesn't mean that the chair itself is one that I would like to have in my house. I, for example, have the best dining chairs in the world. By "best", I mean that they are very comfortable, can be sat in all evening without becoming uncomfortable. They are unique, in that there is not another chair the same anywhere in the world. And they are pleasing to the eye. To my eye, anyway. Other people may assess them as ghastly. And do you know what?

I didn't design them.

Well not from scratch, anyway. I carried a picture in my wallet, torn from an in-flight magazine in 1987. It was extolling virtues of the Ercol furniture company, and depicted one of its original chairs (most Ercol stuff is very derivative, repro stuff). I determined then to make a set of chairs like that. I had no concept of design right.
But it took ten years before I was in a position to do that. In that time I learned about Charles Rennie Mackintosh and Sam Maloof. The chairs I eventually built we a hybrid of the three, with a bit of Steve Maskery thrown in. An original combination of non-original features. Even now, 15 years later, people comment (favourably!) on the chairs. Only last week an acquaintance said that when he wins the lottery he is going to commission me to furnish his house. Can't wait!
Chairs are so much more than something to sit on, aren't they?
S

 

[xy mosian]

Any pictures Steve?
xy

 

[Steve Maskery]

Not a good one, no. And I have only two left of the set, the rest are gone.
I have this, but most of the chair is obscured!

They are a lot more comfortable than they look. Excellent upholstery and superb lumbar support.
S

 

[xy mosian]

Thanks Steve. Have I got it right? Do the slats bend back towards a horizontal rail a couple of inches above the back of the seat? Is the crest rail at about the height of the back of the head? Ok that last one dependes upon the height of the user somewhat. All in all they do look rather interesting.

xy

 

[Steve Maskery]

The sides rails of the seat extend behind the back rail of the seat about 100mm. The legs are vertical and the crest rail is at head height for most people (so yes, when you laugh you bang your head). The back splats are taken straight off Sam Maloof and the bell ends are from the original Ercol design. The height was the most I could get from my lathe at the time, but I would have made them even taller if I could. I love the CRM high backs.
The back splats are cut from the solid and curve S-wise that 100mm. It's that curve which produces the good lumbar support.
The original Ercol was a wooden seat with a pad, these have a traditional drop-in upholstered seat.
So none of it is really original, and yet they are unique
I don't have space where I am to photograph them again, but I'll see if I can take one outside and get some shots.
S
PS is "interesting" a euphemism?

 

[Steve Maskery]

OK, Here are some photos:
Front and side elevations

The all-important view from the back.

This shows how supportive the chair is

How the backsplats fit the back seat rail

Bell detail

Plan view of seat. If I made these again, I would fit a seat that comes down over the front rail.

These may not be to anyone's personal taste, but that is not the point really is it? They are comfy and I like them and I very much enjoyed the process of creating them.
Steve

 

[xy mosian]

Steve, Thanks for going to all that trouble, and in the cold too. A well thought out design there. 'Interesting' was not used as a euphemism at all. I think you have a design there which deserves closer inspection. It is said to be comfortable and I have no reason to doubt that. Visually there is lots to see, from the bell ends to the high crest. I cannot remember where, of course, but I have read that the CRM chairs are not particularly easy to sit on. You seem to have come up with a chair which shows the CRM influences, and added comfort. I wonder what the effect would be if the crest rail were curved slightly in the manner of some Japanese work? Still that would involve bending which is a whole different game.
In the spring I am due to visit my brother, in france, he has asked if I can make one or two chairs for use outside, under a covered space. His facilities are sparse, we have access to a wood, but limited tools. My preparations have seen me drawn to lath back windsor chairs similar to these : http://www.windsorchair.co.uk/windsorchair5.htm. I think in ten days or so I might just about manage one or two. The main area of concern, for me, is the back leg, had I looked at a 'stick' chair with a woven seat then I would need to set up some form of bending arrangement. I don't think I will have the time for that.
Thanks again, xy

 

[Steve Maskery]

You are welcome. I quite enjoyed doing it, I've not had my camera out for months. Probably got a few funny looks from passing drivers, though!
Thank you for your kind words. It was indeed my intention to make a comfortable chair from all the influences I had found and been covetous of. When you see a genuine Mack in the flesh you wonder how anyone managed to sit on it for any length of time. I've heard it said that the ones for the staff in Miss Cranston's Tea Rooms were deliberately uncomfortable so that the staff would not spend time sitting down, although, of course, I have no idea if that is true.
I'd still like to make a Maloof rocker one day. Does anyone have his book that they would be prepared to part with?
I really liked the original Ercol diner. Until, that was, I saw one in the flesh. It was far too small for my liking. It had a much lower back and was generally small of seat. And I didn't like the pad idea at all. So what you see is a hybrid of them all.
I've already started to design my next dining chair. When I get my own place again I shall make a new set and give these two to my brother who has the rest of the suite.
As to your Windsors - they should be doable with limited and basic tooling. After all, that's how they were produced originally. I've never made one myself, so I don't know how feasible is your time schedule. But I do hope you remember your camera, otherwise, of course, you never made them at all!
Good luck with them
Steve
Edit - BTW, it was writing up the story of how I came up with the design for this chair that started my woodworking writing career. I think I entitled it "Design Inspiration or Plagiarism?"

 

[bugbear]

Edit - BTW, it was writing up the story of how I came up with the design for this chair that started my woodworking writing career. I think I entitled it "Design Inspiration or Plagiarism?"

Love the photos in the snow. I think you've amply demonstrated the point - almost all design takes existing ideas and either alters them a little, or uses them in a new combination.

Even "trivial" changes, like altering the length of an existing chest table design to better fit a room needs consideration of (at least) the new proportions.

We're all designers.

BugBear

 

[Paul Chapman]

I think those chairs look great, Steve - and so comfortable. Cracking design.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Jacob]

....... "Design Inspiration or Plagiarism?"

TBH I don't think people copy enough. It's the basis of craft education and should be compulsory! That's how it used to be - copy, copy, until you know what you are doing and are on top of it.
I don't hold with the very modern imperative towards originality, creativity etc. The results are often not good and you wonder why the maker didn't take the trouble to look at work by more competent people. Or were they just blind?
Carefully 'deriving' rather then direct copying is also fraught - think of all those tedious Krenov 'derived' designs which could have been so much better if they had just gone for it and copied.
So IMHO don't worry about it Steve, as long as you are not 'passing off' but just admitting to your sources.

 

[Modernist]

Very interesting Steve, I'd missed the continuation of this thread. I well remember the Ercol catalogue with the "bell end" range, it appealed to me at the time but I preferred the Krenov original. Re the slats I wonder if Maloof copied Wegner (peacock chair) or visa versa? Being an organicist myself the CRM elements of straight legs, horizontal seat` and top rail make me question how it can be so comfortable, which it clearly is, without a sloping seat. The answer may lie in the 100mm setback of the base of the back, I don't know.

A very interesting delve into developed derivation

PS I do have the autobiography Maloof book which you are welcome to borrow. I am with you on wanting to do a Maloof style chair, which shows the power of design, as I hate rasping and sanding, (well finishing in general actually).

 

[Steve Maskery]

Hey Brian, long time no see!

Very interesting Steve, I'd missed the continuation of this thread. I well remember the Ercol catalogue with the "bell end" range, it appealed to me at the time but I preferred the Krenov original. Re the slats I wonder if Maloof copied Hegner (peacock chair) or visa versa?

I've just googled the peacock chair. I hadn't seen that before. One could be derived from the other, or they could both be derived from a third. I wonder what the cross-section of that backsplat is? Mine is like a capital letter D, flat against the sitter and round on the back.

Being an organicist myself the CRM elements of straight legs, horizontal seat` and top rail make me question how it can be so comfortable, which it clearly is, without a sloping seat. The answer may lie in the 100mm setback of the base of the back, I don't know.

Actually the seat does slope a bit. Not very much, only about 2 deg, IIRC, and the padding of the seat is so great that the dome of the foam produces a supporting curve for the back of the thighs.

A very interesting delve into developed derivation

Ooh, I must remember that phrase!

PS I do have the autobiography Maloof book which you are welcome to borrow. I am with you on wanting to do a Maloof style chair, which shows the power of design, as I hate rasping and sanding, (well finishing in general actually).

Yes please. I come out your way fairly regularly, walking on Sundays. This Sunday I'm at Ashford in the Water, not a million miles away. Perhaps I could call in one time?

Steve

 

[Modernist]

A very interesting delve into developed derivation

Ooh, I must remember that phrase!
Steve

It goes well with "Dome of foam"

PS I do have the autobiography Maloof book which you are welcome to borrow. I am with you on wanting to do a Maloof style chair, which shows the power of design, as I hate rasping and sanding, (well finishing in general actually).

Yes please. I come out your way fairly regularly, walking on Sundays. This Sunday I'm at Ashford in the Water, not a million miles away. Perhaps I could call in one time?

Steve[/quote]

I am picking some friends up from Manchester airport early Sunday morning (very early actually) but should be back at base by early afternoon. You are very welcome to call in on your way back. I'll pm you details.

 

[wem]

No Wassily or Barcelona chair, nothing by Wenger! Very poor!

 

[Jacob]

No Wassily or Barcelona chair, nothing by Wenger! Very poor!

The title of the book reviewed in the Telegraph in the OPs first post isn't "The Best Chairs Ever Designed" but is merely "1000 Chairs".
I guess the Telegraph wouldn't have space to illustrate all 1000 but in fact Wegner, The Wassily and Barcelona chairs, Macintosh etc are all in the book. It's a very good book! Essential reading.
The similarly titled "500 Chairs" is in comparison really boring and much less than half as good - mostly "post modern" knick-knackery (yawn).