The Beast has landed.

[cutting42]

so if I use the thicker 2.5mm core cable can I run that from the workshop and into a different socket in the house -If that would work, is this cable from screwfix the right one to use:
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?cId=A331782&ts=89270&id=97520

Hi Byron

Sorry to rain on the parade but do not use the above "Twin and Earth" cabling. It is designed for internal permanent installations in trunking or behind studding etc. You can use an extension lead but it must be rated 30% above the expected current draw so you don't get voltage drop and it must be a Flexible cable and 50m of flex does not come cheap.

link to cable

This is 15A, you may need to go to 20A which is 2.5mm dia.

 

[Adam]

If that would work, is this cable from screwfix the right one to use:
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?cId=A331782&ts=89270&id=97520

Byron,

Seems like you are trying to stave of the inevitable - which is having spent so much time and money making a workshop, that one essential aspect of that is having it hooked up properly and wired to have a good selection of sockets and sufficient lighting. Possibly a burglar alarm cable or intercom whilst you are at it.

"Temporary" solutions like using T+E are never ideal, its not designed to be coiled and uncoiled, its not resistant to rodent attack, it doesn't have UV protection, nor armour. Imagine if you are busy in the workshop and the missus shoves a spade through it? Does it have an RCD on it? etc etc.

Adam

 

[ByronBlack]

Thanks for all the input guy's. I'll have to re-think. I really need to get it running just to see if it works, if it does then I can wait until SWMBO's dad can come over and finish the last part of wiring (the shed consumer unit to the main house, the armoured cable is all in, just need the final connection).

The problem I have, is if I don't test it and wait a month or two for the eletrics to be finished and then find out it doesn't work i'll have a much harder time in getting the machine replaced, and i'm just about fed up with dealing Lyndhurst at the moment.

I wished I never bothered with this damned machine! Bah! :twisted:

 

[lurker]

If you lash it up, it most likely won't work anyway due to volt drop factors with your "extension cable" plus the connection failures at the plug & socket end.
A decent wire up and it will be safe as well has function.

In addition you run the risk of damaging the house wiring and god knows what else.

Don't do it mate!

 

[Sawdust]

On the other hand...

Stick a normal plug on it with a 13A fuse in it and plug it into the wall. If you need to use an extension cable, make sure it's a 13A one and uncoil it.

Turn it on and either it will work in which case start playing with it or it will blow the fuse in which case you need a 16A supply.

It won't blow the house up, destroy the town you live in or melt any cables!

Mike

 

[ByronBlack]

Mike

Thanks for that - I think what i'll do then is find a short 13a extension (long enough to reach the machine) plug it into a different socket to that of the normal workshop extension, and give it a quick whirl to see if it works, I doubt i'll continue to run it after that though until my wiring is complete. It's just my paranoia needs to be satsified that it does actually work before I put it in mothballs for a month or two.

I guess this just highlights my in-experience in these matters, it's a bit of learning curve and I appreciate all your help (everyone), I must be boring the preverbials of everyone with this endless saga.

 

[OLD]

I agree with Sawdust and i also have one of these machines its always worked fine on 13amp it must have been switched a few hundred times since i got it .
By the way p/t make lots of planeings which if not removed get in the rollers and can be pressed into the wood and obviously clog up the machine quite quickly so dust collection is also required So it makes sense to sort out the power sooner rather than later running cables and mounting equipment saves the electrician time and you money.

 

[Mike.C]

Byron,

I must be boring the preverbials of everyone with this endless saga.

Not at all mate. Thats part of what the forum is about. If we cannot listern and help then the forum is not working. I just hope that you can get it all sorted out soon, because it must be an absolute gutter to go through what you have and not be able to use it yet.

Cheers

Mike

 

[ByronBlack]

Some excellent points made OLD - the DX was lurking in the back of my mind.

The plan of action then is: Source a good extension lead to try the machine out and get the initial setup done. Give it a good lubricating wax and then store in a way to prevet rust build up, wait the month or two for the wiring to be complete, by which time I should also have enough cash for a dust extractor. I'll just have to be patient.

 

[Mike.C]

yeah.

Cheers

Mike

 

[ByronBlack]

IT'S ALIVE!!!!!

So, I hacked off the power lead from the dreaded power-devil router, which had a 13amp fused plug, wired up the cone-thing, plugged it in tentatively pressed the green button - nothing. Hmm - doh! The emergancy stop button was pressed on the other side.

So anyways, I clicked off the emergency stop button, pressed the green-button, all the lights went out, the motor started up, 5 secs later the lights came back on and it was purring away very smoothly. I only ran it for 20 seconds or so, I tried to feed a bit of wood through it, but the outfeed table is currently a bit higher than the blade so I stopped - that'll need sorting out.

So, I am hyper-relieved that it all works ok, sounds fine, doesn't vibrate and didn't blow the 13amp fuse. So, i'm going to buy a good heavy duty extension to run this from a seperate socket in the house as and when I need it, but I doubt i'll be using it extensively - just for setup.

Here's another Q:

If I were to add a dust extractor, it clearly wont run on the single extension that ive currently got in the workshop along with the P/T. SO, would it be an ok setup 'FOR THE TIME BEING' to run the P/T on it's own extension on a seperate socket in the house, and the extractor on my current extension that powers my workshop? I'm able to power lights, mitre-saw and radio aswell as my shop-vac so i'm assuming a stand alone dust-extractor would be ok?

Either way, i'm now well chuffed that the swine is working, looks like a keeper after my mild panic today/lastnight.

 

[Sawdust]

Glad it worked.

Yes, you can run the extractor off another socket without problem.

Cheers
Mike

 

[lurker]

Obviously I don't know how your house is wired up, but even if you plug stuff in different sockets it most likely will be on the same 15 amp ring.

Everyone who keeps goading you on, seems to think that the fuses will protect you from overload. With a bit of luck that s true.

However, I've seen quite a few instances where neutral wires sheathing have been cooked all the way from the appliance to the distrubution board. Fault is usually a bad connection somewhere. Using so many plugs & sockets from board to machine is asking for trouble. This is why bigger (amps) equipment is hard wired.

 

[Sawdust]

Obviously I don't know how your house is wired up, but even if you plug stuff in different sockets it most likely will be on the same 15 amp ring.

Everyone who keeps goading you on, seems to think that the fuses will protect you from overload. With a bit of luck that s true.

However, I've seen quite a few instances where neutral wires sheathing have been cooked all the way from the appliance to the distrubution board. Fault is usually a bad connection somewhere. Using so many plugs & sockets from board to machine is asking for trouble. This is why bigger (amps) equipment is hard wired.

Fair point although if the wiring is faulty then the same applies to plugging in a kettle while the tumble drier is running - same ring and similar loads and personally I would rather know if it was faulty.

I'm curious about your comment about 15A rings as mine are all 30A and have 32A breakers (house rings I mean, the garage/workshop is on a separate 30A circuit with its own consumer unit and ring in the garage)

Mike

 

[ByronBlack]

My house is on a seperate ring to the workshop and is rated at a minimum of 20amps if not more, the workshop consumer unit will be hard-wired eventually.

 

[davy_owen_88]

Obviously I don't know how your house is wired up, but even if you plug stuff in different sockets it most likely will be on the same 15 amp ring.

Everyone who keeps goading you on, seems to think that the fuses will protect you from overload. With a bit of luck that s true.

However, I've seen quite a few instances where neutral wires sheathing have been cooked all the way from the appliance to the distrubution board. Fault is usually a bad connection somewhere. Using so many plugs & sockets from board to machine is asking for trouble. This is why bigger (amps) equipment is hard wired.

Fuses do protect from overloads, that is their job. A high resistance neutral connection will create heat regardless of overloads. Normal currents can still knacker a CU if there is a loose connection.

2.5m² ring circuits are almost always protected by a 30/32A fuse/MCB. The reason for not plugging 2 high power appliances/2 extension leads feeding high power appliances into the same socket is because standard double sockets are rated at 13A not 26A like most people seem to think, over time they get warm and eventually melt.

Running 2 extension leads from different sockets on the same circuit is fine assuming the extension load is suitably rated and the VD is not more than 4% of your supply voltage - any more and motors can fail to start.

 

[OLD]

Sorry i can not under stand the above a ring main has two cables 1 clockwise &1 anti clock both rated at 30amps when you plug some thing in the current is shared between clock and anti clock and the ring is protected by a 32 amp mcb so how can you overload it, it is overrated for its purpose so you could plug two 13amp loads in a double socket and additional 6 amps and its still working in spec.
Loose connections are faults and you will notice these by poor performance, smoke ,smells etc and take appropriate action but i do agree that fuses etc do not protect against high resistance faults sound installation is the answer.

 

[davy_owen_88]

Sorry i can not under stand the above a ring main has two cables 1 clockwise &1 anti clock both rated at 30amps when you plug some thing in the current is shared between clock and anti clock and the ring is protected by a 32 amp mcb so how can you overload it, it is overrated for its purpose so you could plug two 13amp loads in a double socket and additional 6 amps and its still working in spec.

A single length of 2.5mm² twin and earth is rated at 27A when clipped direct. The load isn't shared equally between each leg, the load is shared according to the resistance of each leg. If the load is 1/4 of the way around the ring 3/4 of the load will travel down the short leg and 1/4 will travel through the long leg so it is possible to draw more current through a single length of cable than it is rated for without the circuit actually being overloaded.

Although the circuit is designed for 32A each double socket is only designed for a continuous load of 13A to be drawn through it. Putting 2 high power appliances into one double socket is overloading that socket despite the fact the circuit is running within it's limits. It is fine for short periods but if a load of more than 13A is put through a double socket continuously it will be damaged.

 

[Jake]

As I found out by a bit of stupidity...

I plugged my planer and my 3kw camvac into the same double socket. One side of the socket melted.

I don't do that anymore.

 

[OLD]

I am still in difficulty the ring is rated at 32amps the sockets are part of it so which bit of the socket cannot stand the current just can not get my head round it sorry.