Tenon/mortise in wide pieces (bench base)

[pompon44]

Hi,

I'm contemplating the idea of building my bench, and I'm perusing Landis' book... I guess I'll go for a Klauz' bench. The base (and possibly also the top ) will be made of fir. Now, reading the bench plan at the end of the book, I see tenons in the legs, which are 3/4 wide for a leg 2 3/4 wide. So it's less than a third, but I guess this is no problem. The real question is when do you decide to go to a double tenon ?
Not a really innocent question as I'm not equipped to (easily) do a 3/4" mortise. Could I go for 2 3/8" mortises instead ? Any drawbacks down the line ?

Thanks,

 

[Anonymous]

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[pompon44]

Good morning Jacob,

Yes, I meant two tenons side by side. But as you said this might be a little bit too difficult, for sure it would for the absolute beginner I am ;-)

I guess my problem with cutting is that I'd like to do it using a mortise chisel, and then if the mortise is (about twice or more) bigger than the chisel, the advantage (firm registration on the sides of the mortises) of the mortise chisel itself disappears, I would say. But well, maybe I should drop that "all by hand" idea and admit I'll have to cut those mortises using a router ;-)

Thanks for your answer,

 

[Anonymous]

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[MikeW]

Personally, I would use a brace and bore the mortise holes and pare them out with my bench or paring chisels rather than trying to bang them out.

For wide mortises, I find it quicker.

The double mortise/tenon side by side. I do them when I feel a single wide one would either be more time consuming or because the tenon would be basically one big cube. Here I made a double tenon [haven't cut the haunches yet]:

To fit in these haunched mortises:

Take care, Mike

 

[Anonymous]

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[pompon44]

Well, I don't know what's a Stanley type bench vice ;-)

In the picture you linked to, which vice do you find complicated ? The shoulder one on the left or the twin tail one ?

regards,

 

[MikeW]

Re the krausz bench I spotted this: http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/Ben ... ench0.html
What's the point of the complicated looking vice set up? It looks positively inconvenient compared to a normal Stanley type bench vice. Have I missed the point?

cheers
Jacob

I assume you mean the vise on the front left, the shoulder vise?

They have both pluses and minuses. It's an old design actually. They are good in that they have a full-width of bearing across and below the vise itself. Makes for sawing DTs in drawer sides a snap.

As well, it makes for easy edge jointing because of a lack of impediments below the jaws and the free end can be supported via board jack or even a pair of wood screw vises.

The main drawback having used a friend's is I bumped my hip walking back and forth occassionaly. I suspect it would be one of those things one needs to get use to.

Take care, Mike

 

[Anonymous]

Hello pompom
Seeing as you say your a complete beginner, I'd consider building a less complex bench than Franzs klauas's , you'll be less likely to end up frustrated and/or disilusioned if you havent yet got enough skill to build that sort of bench yet!! Theres plenty of simpler but still effective bench concepts around, why not check out bugbears link farm on his site?? At the end of the day the bench is a solid table to hold wood immovabaly whilst it be planed, sawn, mortised etc, the french bench type is solid and quite simple compared to the eastern european/german type.

Jacob, as far as I know, the vice at the left is for doing dovetails. One advantage-no screw or guide bars in the way so you can hold long bits verticaly right between he jaws, just a giant G clampo built into the bench top. But it seems weak to me as it could bust open under too much pressure. Also I like to move right along side the whole front of my bench, the front vice would get in my way when planing. The poles/hungarieans/germans etc use that stlye of end vice (usually an L shape rather than full width as in your pictuers) on the right side to hold wood beteween 2 dogs for planing rather than useing a simple bench stop/nail etc. I reckon its what theyre used to Takes all sorts theres good and bad points to every thing

 

[Anonymous]

seems like mike and myself are saying the same thing

 

[pompon44]

Mr Spaton,

Thanks for the advice ;-)
BTW, I'll first build the base and see how it goes. If it goes wrong, then I'll know I'm not up to the task of build a Klaus' top ;-)
We'll see...

 

[Anonymous]

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[Anonymous]

They did make threads for bench screw's from beech originally
look at this german one I saw on ebay

Looks to be about 50 minimeters diam
I think they hand chased threads also.
looks to be about bullet proof I'd say 8)
They always need an iron rod through to stop them busting open.

 

[pompon44]

I'd say it still is a cheap way of building vises. Both shoulder and tail vises from APTC is about 25£... Quite a bit less than a "normal" front vice.
(BTW, is the correct spelling vice or vise ??)

 

[Anonymous]

Visit a vide greniers for a bargain act nonchalant :wink: :roll:
Un charpentier anglais dit "vice" mais un Americain dit "vise" pas de probleme
Cheapest vice I made and it was a solid one was a simple leg vice where you use one front leg of the bench as half of your vice, the bench screw threads into a nut set into the leg. I used a record bench screw but you could cut threads in beech. That vice could grip wood firm enough to hew it with a small axe.
heres a wood leg vice

and a couple fixed to bench's

simple and effective
cheers Mr Spanton

 

[pompon44]

My grandfather had a bench with this type of vise, which is kind of traditional in France I would say. My father does have one too. The very few times I've used those (it was only recently that I really picked the wood virus, when I was younger the bench was much less fun than a computer game...), I found them awkward to set (the lower part, have no idea how it's called in english, which you have to pin at the approximate right opening before screwing).
But sure, that's a reasonable vise too.

 

[Anonymous]

oui thats the downside to that style; you can use a batten with lots of holes to peg for different stock thicknesses or you can put an offcut the same width at the bottom to keep the jaws parallell. The drilled bar also stops the front jaw spinning as you tighten. depending how far down you place the screw you can vary the amount of pressure you can get, more depth, less pressure, less depth, more pessure. the ones in the pics seem to be about 1/3 the way down. Michael dunbar uses a "forgeron" all metal post vice to hold stock when shaping chair parts :shock:
chers Mr Spanton

 

[bugbear]

Re the krausz bench I spotted this: http://home.comcast.net/~charliebcz/Ben ... ench0.html
What's the point of the complicated looking vice set up? It looks positively inconvenient compared to a normal Stanley type bench vice. Have I missed the point?

cheers
Jacob

I assume you mean the vise on the front left, the shoulder vise?

They have both pluses and minuses. It's an old design actually. They are good in that they have a full-width of bearing across and below the vise itself. Makes for sawing DTs in drawer sides a snap.

As well, it makes for easy edge jointing because of a lack of impediments below the jaws and the free end can be supported via board jack or even a pair of wood screw vises.

The main drawback having used a friend's is I bumped my hip walking back and forth occassionaly. I suspect it would be one of those things one needs to get use to.

Take care, Mike

Heh. An idea I suggested long ago on Badger Pond finally got made... (*)

http://nika.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswi ... 73#message

Best of both worlds.

BugBear

(*) not by me, obviously!