Talking myself out of buying premium tools

[eribaMotters]

Back to the title. Buy the best you need. Spend as much as you can afford on the everyday stuff that is in your hands for a long time. Other stuff you do not need to be so extravagant on and it frees up your available funds.

Colin

 

[tibi]

100 percent of the time, the way to check open market prices is to look only at sold items on eBay. Since eBay removed the cost to list and relist years ago, the listed price information has become meaningless.

That is a very good piece of advice. At least I will know what price should I expect to pay for an item that I want. I did the search and the prices paid vary big time. So you can get lucky and get a nice plane for a rather low price - or ridiculously high price, if you are willing to bit that much.

 

[Ttrees]

5 1/2 record plane new?

Most of these planes are soba made.

Quality of casting are good.

Cheers James

Seems so, well for this 5 1/2 plane yes, a nice thick even casting front to back, and a fairly tidy mouth of normal size, not like a burgundy cheap stanley with a huge mouth which likely would be a weak spot if dropped at some stage in its life.
I wouldn't say the quality is the same for the 60 1/2, as I had one of those, and there was a bit of a pocket in the casting of the sole of that plane.

If it was out of the stiff plastic heat shrink, I could have given that
lever cap screw a test, I doubt I'd like it TBH.
Likewise no way to test for square in the pack.
I've seen these before local in Chadwicks, and once again on discount for the same money, and a cheap not as nice no 4 plane beside for a lot more dough.
I thought it was a mistake the first time, strange and maybe a coincidence.

 

[Keith Cocker]

As good as kitten ?.

Much better! Only bat has the special ingredient COVID-19. It makes all the difference.

 

[jcassidy]

Thanks for the answer. I would be glad to know some good online irish sites where I can purchase woodworking handtools. I will save on the import fees from the Uk.

easyliveauction.com Mostly UK-based but does include some Irish, Northern Irish (and therefore still within the EU) and Cypriot auctioneers. You'd want to check that they will post to you first, obviously... most are more than happy to package up a couple of saws or whatever.

 

[Jameshow]

Seems so, well for this 5 1/2 plane yes, a nice thick even casting front to back, and a fairly tidy mouth of normal size, not like a burgundy cheap stanley with a huge mouth which likely would be a weak spot if dropped at some stage in its life.
I wouldn't say the quality is the same for the 60 1/2, as I had one of those, and there was a bit of a pocket in the casting of the sole of that plane.

If it was out of the stiff plastic heat shrink, I could have given that
lever cap screw a test, I doubt I'd like it TBH.
Likewise no way to test for square in the pack.
I've seen these before local in Chadwicks, and once again on discount for the same money, and a cheap not as nice no 4 plane beside for a lot more dough.
I thought it was a mistake the first time, strange and maybe a coincidence.

Do you have a link???

Cheers James

 

[jcassidy]

Check out things like adverts.ie - there are some very very good sellers on there, and yes, some of the prices reflect collectors interest (router planes being a great example) but you can get standard tools such as planes, chisels etc. at very reasonable prices. A lot of these people will also be happy to build you a bundle of tools for a price, all nicely cleaned up.

What you want to avoid is the guy who found an old saw in the shed and wants €60 for it...

Honestly the only premium tools I purchase are squares (esp. Starrett), pencils, and books, but I'm only a fake woodworker trying to relive my glorious youth.

 

[Ttrees]

@Jameshow, oops, I thought it was a no.5 1/2 from the packaging.
Although it is probably the most do all plane you could own, they seem
not particularly suited to anything in particular to me, and a bit heavy for scrubbish work.
That's about the only good thing for a no.5 lemon,
In winter I find a no.4 too short and me sleeve gets caught on the heel.
Here's a link nonetheless, it is heavy

https://www.homebase.co.uk/irwin-record-jack-plane-14-x-2in/12813046.html

 

[Jameshow]

@Jameshow, oops, I thought it was a no.5 1/2 from the packaging.
Although it is probably the most do all plane you could own, they seem
not particularly suited to anything in particular to me, and a bit heavy for scrubbish work.
That's about the only good thing for a no.5 lemon,
In winter I find a no.4 too short and me sleeve gets caught on the heel.
Here's a link nonetheless, it is heavy

https://www.homebase.co.uk/irwin-record-jack-plane-14-x-2in/12813046.html

I have a spear and Jackson no5 probably the same plane. Nice plane was using mine recently for cutting the breadboards on a table I'm making.

I also have a Wickes no5 which I've made into a scrub Blane with beveled blade great for rough timber prep.

Cheers James

 

[Ttrees]

Not seeing a wicks brand no.5, but I see there's some difference in the casting of both the S&J plane and the R/I plane, the former having webbing.
If these foundries were to make a ductile iron plane, I'd have a more value in a cheapo and just let a nice patina of dust and oxidation cover it.
I doubt I'd ever notice the brand name.

 

[D_W]

Check out things like adverts.ie - there are some very very good sellers on there, and yes, some of the prices reflect collectors interest (router planes being a great example) but you can get standard tools such as planes, chisels etc. at very reasonable prices. A lot of these people will also be happy to build you a bundle of tools for a price, all nicely cleaned up.

What you want to avoid is the guy who found an old saw in the shed and wants €60 for it...

Honestly the only premium tools I purchase are squares (esp. Starrett), pencils, and books, but I'm only a fake woodworker trying to relive my glorious youth.

Actually, I think using a good pencil is a bigger difference than LN vs. Stanley, for example.

There's a misunderstanding with the blind "buy the best you can afford" recommendation that something like an LN plane and set of V11 chisels will yield any improvement in productivity over any decent English chisels and any good bailey pattern older plane.

There's little effect to this on experienced woodworkers (who will soon find that marking and design and organizing things are where the trouble is, not with sharpening tools, which becomes a <1 minute process for chisels and a 1 minute process or a little more for plane irons - double that for V11 and A2, but you won't get double the interval between sharpenings, definitely not with A2 and with V11, only if planing really clean wood like in a test.

But to have nice marking tools (not expensive ones, not super fine prissy ones, but rather things like knives that mark well and pencils that have a strong point and mark well), there's a lot to be said for that.

I have used palomino blackwings in the shop before to mark (they are divine - expensive, but divine) as well as tombows, etc, and I've used pencils that are 24 for $1 (and they are OK, too, but the chance that they keep their point when they hit a bump is much lower). The chance that they even keep a fine point when sharpening is much lower.

 

[RobinBHM]

I bought an old set of stanley 5001 chisels -they sharpen up pretty good, never had any need to spend loads

on the other hand I bought a scheppach track saw -found it rather poor and then bought a festool track saw -which I use often.

 

[RobinBHM]

Actually, I think using a good pencil is a bigger difference than LN vs. Stanley, for example

I use these pencils:

HB for general marking out and writing and 2H for precise marking

 

[jcassidy]

Yes, these, and lots. I'm an habitual misplacer-of-pencils and like to have a handful ready to go.

 

[Tony Zaffuto]

In the end, all edge tools and pencils need sharpened!

As for premium tools, maybe we should concentrate more on a tool being made correctly, rather than the name?

 

[Jacob]

I use these pencils:

HB for general marking out and writing and 2H for precise marking

Buy different brands so that your HBs and 2Hs are different colours. A primary school teacher taught me that!

 

[Selwyn]

I bought an old set of stanley 5001 chisels -they sharpen up pretty good, never had any need to spend loads

on the other hand I bought a scheppach track saw -found it rather poor and then bought a festool track saw -which I use often.

You can buy a set of 5002 for £18 new. No idea how bad they are

 

[D_W]

You can buy a set of 5002 for £18 new. No idea how bad they are

They will probably be like the irwins are now (showing evidence of being a lower carbon steel than a more typical 0.8-1.1 chisel of yore), but there's nothing in terms of material costs that would keep them from being very good. For example, if they were drop forged from 1% chrome vanadium rod and heat treated properly, they could be a match for most anything. The cost of that rod would only be a couple of dollars for chisels (I think it's about $1.5-$2 a pound in USD terms for lower grade rod of that spec). The savings from using a lower carbon rod are in the fractions of a dollar, but the specs for a site chisel (lower hardness than a cabinetmaker's chisel) may make the lower carbon stuff a better choice (won't go into the hardening and tempering and how alloys affect final hardness without changing process other than to say if you ran the same induction hardening and tempering line with .6% carbon steel and 1% carbon steel, the latter would be a couple of points harder.

At any rate, the takeaway from this being that there's no real reason that a chinese made set of 5 pound-each chisels couldn't be very good and still be profitable to sell.

 

[Tony Zaffuto]

They will probably be like the irwins are now (showing evidence of being a lower carbon steel than a more typical 0.8-1.1 chisel of yore), but there's nothing in terms of material costs that would keep them from being very good. For example, if they were drop forged from 1% chrome vanadium rod and heat treated properly, they could be a match for most anything. The cost of that rod would only be a couple of dollars for chisels (I think it's about $1.5-$2 a pound in USD terms for lower grade rod of that spec). The savings from using a lower carbon rod are in the fractions of a dollar, but the specs for a site chisel (lower hardness than a cabinetmaker's chisel) may make the lower carbon stuff a better choice (won't go into the hardening and tempering and how alloys affect final hardness without changing process other than to say if you ran the same induction hardening and tempering line with .6% carbon steel and 1% carbon steel, the latter would be a couple of points harder.

At any rate, the takeaway from this being that there's no real reason that a chinese made set of 5 pound-each chisels couldn't be very good and still be profitable to sell.

But, but, but David, don’t you know here in the states, we have many boutique toolmakers, that have figured out how to capture unicorn tears, that make their goods truly premium! Look at the handsaw makers that emerged (with as many folding) over the past two decades. Put aside the like of LN, LV and a couple others, you end up with a significant number that are in business to fund their hobbies. Many produce goods no better that those available at Lowes, etc., except for 4 times the price.

 

[powertools]

If you have the money and the desire to own a full set of tools then just buy anything you want. When starting out you don't need a full set of tools and if you go down the second hand route it could take a long time to build up even the most basic kit.
In my opinion just buy the mid price tools needed for the job in hand and build up and replace as the need arises.