Table saw technique

[George_N]

On Saturday I was ripping some oak to make a face frame for the router table I am building and I ended up with some pieces that were definitely not straight. I was using my Triton Workcentre and the timber was some 19 mm oak flooring off-cuts I rescued from a firewood pile. I know that I should set the fence so that the larger part of the timber is between the fence and the blade, with the narrow piece to the outside, but I wanted quite a few 19 mm strips from several different boards so I set the fence at 20 mm and started ripping. The first piece was ok but by the third I was getting a distinct curve. What was I doing wrong and what is the best way to go about producing a number of pieces the same width without continually moving the fence and introducing errors in size etc.

cheers

George

 

[Bean]

George is the curve on the pieces you are cutting off the plank?

If so it may be that you are releasing tension in the timber causing the curve and not your technique.

Bean

 

[George_N]

Yes, it was the narrow strips that had the curve. It was worse with the first piece I cut so you might be right about some tension in the timbet being released.


George

 

[johnelliott]

The problem you describe is absolutely typical of table saw behaviour and doesn't necessarily indicate tensions being released.
As you already realise, but for the benefit of other readers, the best way to cut narrow strips is to keep a straight edge of the material against the rip fence, trim the other edge parallel, then move the fence towards the blade by the thickness you require AND the kerf of the blade. The off cut will then be the strip you require, if your calculations are correct.
John

 

[ikd]

The problem you describe is absolutely typical of table saw behaviour and doesn't necessarily indicate tensions being released.
As you already realise, but for the benefit of other readers, the best way to cut narrow strips is to keep a straight edge of the material against the rip fence, trim the other edge parallel, then move the fence towards the blade by the thickness you require AND the kerf of the blade. The off cut will then be the strip you require, if your calculations are correct.
John

So are you saying that you compound the error with every cut :?:

 

[George_N]

I reckoned that the third and fourth strips I cut from the first board were much worse than the first. On the Triton workcentre the mitre gauge is a triangular protractor, to which you can fit a pressure finger, which works rather like a feather board to keep the piece tight to the fence. I set this up just in front of the blade and subsequent cuts were much better.

George

 

[johnelliott]

The problem you describe is absolutely typical of table saw behaviour and doesn't necessarily indicate tensions being released.
As you already realise, but for the benefit of other readers, the best way to cut narrow strips is to keep a straight edge of the material against the rip fence, trim the other edge parallel, then move the fence towards the blade by the thickness you require AND the kerf of the blade. The off cut will then be the strip you require, if your calculations are correct.
John

So are you saying that you compound the error with every cut :?:

Basically, yes. If there's a very slight curve on the edge against the rip fence, then the curve on the other edge will be worse, and so on.

I was cutting 8mm strips (which will be thicknessed down to 6mm) on my table saw this afternoon using the technique I described above. Most of the stock was about 68mm wide, with one edge straightened on the planer.
First cut (trimming) at 63mm on the rip fence
Second cut 52mm (8mm + 3mm kerf)
Third cut 41mm
Fourth cut 30mm
Fifth 19mm
Sixth and final cut 8mm
result, 6 strips all 8mm wide

John

 

[lugo35]

could be the blade.cheap blades are a waste of time and money. the meatel is soft and flexes to easily. buy a good quality blade and you will notice the difference straight(excuse the pun) away.
andy

 

[johnelliott]

could be the blade.cheap blades are a waste of time and money. the meatel is soft and flexes to easily. buy a good quality blade and you will notice the difference straight(excuse the pun) away.
andy

Good blades are, of course, an excellent idea. They won't, however, help with this particular problem. How do I know, because I have good quality blades and if I tried ripping strips against the fence like that then I would have the same problem

John

 

[Bean]

John
I thought you had abandoned the table saw in favour of the Festool ??

Bean

 

[johnelliott]

John
I thought you had abandoned the table saw in favour of the Festool ??

Bean

have a look about halfway down this thread
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... 01&start=0

I would add to what I said there that since I have started making hardwood kitchens again that a table saw has become essential.
Working only with sheet materials then the Festool is entirely adequate. One of the jobs I will continue to use the Festool saw for is ripping 8x4 sheets into 8 foot long 70mm wide strips. Even if I had an Altendorf and the space to use it, I would still do that particular job with the Festool

John

 

[Noel]

As you already realise, but for the benefit of other readers, the best way to cut narrow strips is to keep a straight edge of the material against the rip fence, trim the other edge parallel, then move the fence towards the blade by the thickness you require AND the kerf of the blade.

For me the safest AND the most accurate method of cutting narrow strips on the TS is to use a wide push block that has a small lip on the end of it. The lip catches the stock and also provides a constant (and safe) space between the the blade and the rip fence. This, used with a feather board, will leave nice identical stips of timber and no messing about moving the fence etc. For long cuts just make a push block to suit.
I'll post a picture in the morning if needed.

Noel

 

[Adam]

I'll post a picture in the morning if needed. Noel

I'd be interested to see that if possible.

Adam

 

[George_N]

For me the safest AND the most accurate method of cutting narrow strips on the TS is to use a wide push block that has a small lip on the end of it. The lip catches the stock and also provides a constant (and safe) space between the the blade and the rip fence.

I'm not sure what you mean by a small lip on the end of the push block so a photo would be very helpful.
I'd certainly like to find a safe and accurate way to cut multiple narrow strips without continually moving the fence. However, would it be better to cut oversize and make a second, clean up cut on each strip with the fence set at the desired size, just taking off a millimetre or two? I might not make another face frame for a long time but lots of projects need narrow stock so I'd like to improve my technique.

 

[Newbie_Neil]

I'll post a picture in the morning if needed.

Drums fingers. Come on Noely. :wink:

Cheers
Neil

 

[Jarviser]

I have found similar compounding of errors using a bandsaw - which is my only machine saw. I always run a jointer plane along the newly cut face and check with a straightedge before taking the next cut so there is always a straight edge along the fence. I even do this if I am just cutting up wide pieces of reclaim for stock.

 

[Noel]

Ok, had to do a bit of work this morning. Here we go:

The stop at the back of the push shoe advances the stock through the blade and the feather board keeps everything nice and tight.
As I mentioned there's plenty of space between the blade and the fence and the handle keeps digits away from the danger zone. Without the push shoe the only options are to set the fence to the required width (in this case 6mm) leaving no room for any type of pushing aid as well as having any type of blade guard (crown or overhead) come into contact with the fence or to keep re-setting the fence, as discussed earlier.

A push shoe similar to above can be adapted for cuts up to a metre long. Any longer and I prefer to use a carrier of some sort fitted with toggle clamps or a BS. With regard to the method of re-setting the fence for every cut it really depends on how many rip cuts are required and how accurate the cuts need to be. Above all a safe and comfortable method is paramount.

Noel

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi Noel

Guards removed for clarity. :roll:

Well, at least you didn't use a dado blade to cut it. :wink:

Seriously though, thank you for taking the time. That's a really quick way of performing repetitive cuts for narrow stock.

Cheers
Neil

 

[Gill]

That's a super tip, Noel. Thanks for posting it.

Gill

 

[johnelliott]

Well, it certainly needed the picture! I'm going to have a go at that, looks very promising
Thanks

John

I've just noticed, though, that although it's not necessary to move the fence between cuts, one would need to move the featherboard. Not complaining, just an observation