Table Saw kickback and trimmed finger (Graphic description & images)

[Sideways]

Car crash TV !
I think that merits an apology to @BarbaraT .
Watching it probably made her stomach churn :-(

 

[Blackswanwood]

Gory but useful thread. I keep weighing up whether to get a table saw and it's persuaded me that I can do without.

As an aside I keep seeing this advert pop up at the top of the screen and noticed the mention of a free push stick ...

Having clicked on the link this is one of the pictures ....

Either I'm missing something or that's not really a great idea?

 

[sploo]

View attachment 171530
Either I'm missing something or that's not really a great idea?

A short and simple answer (for the fellas anyway) is "don't stick your pinkie where you wouldn't stick your dinkie".

If you wouldn't be comfortable with the proximity of your gentleman's sausage to the business end of a power tool, then you shouldn't be putting your hands there either.

 

[Hornbeam]

For the first situation could you.mount the table high enough (and with sufficient stability) to use an outfeed roller?

I dislike roller stands as unless they are set up perfectly they tend to steer the timber as it is being passed over them. The roller ball stands are much better and do not steer the material

 

[Max Power]

A short and simple answer (for the fellas anyway) is "don't stick your pinkie where you wouldn't stick your dinkie".

If you wouldn't be comfortable with the proximity of your gentleman's sausage to the business end of a power tool, then you shouldn't be putting your hands there either.

That's exactly what I was taught as a youngster and my sausage and fingers are all still in full working order

 

[Jacob]

Gory but useful thread. I keep weighing up whether to get a table saw and it's persuaded me that I can do without.

As an aside I keep seeing this advert pop up at the top of the screen and noticed the mention of a free push stick ...

View attachment 171529

Having clicked on the link this is one of the pictures ....

View attachment 171530
Either I'm missing something or that's not really a great idea?

dead right they are a stupid idea - they take your hands right over the table leaning forward with your bare arm over the bare blade.

 

[Michael Conifer]

Thanks for your posts, BarbaraT and Clogs. They are much appreciated, and so sobering. I'm expecting delivery of a routing table soon. I've never used one before (I'm an absolute woodworking newbie). I read somewhere on this site that these are the most dangerous pieces of equipment in the workshop. I've purchased my table specifically to round off corners, so I'm going to have to use my hands. Is there any advice anyone can give me regarding the safe use of these tables?

 

[paulrbarnard]

Thanks for your posts, BarbaraT and Clogs. They are much appreciated, and so sobering. I'm expecting delivery of a routing table soon. I've never used one before (I'm an absolute woodworking newbie). I read somewhere on this site that these are the most dangerous pieces of equipment in the workshop. I've purchased my table specifically to round off corners, so I'm going to have to use my hands. Is there any advice anyone can give me regarding the safe use of these tables?

Best advice was from @sploo, don’t use your sausage…

 

[akirk]

Thanks for your posts, BarbaraT and Clogs. They are much appreciated, and so sobering. I'm expecting delivery of a routing table soon. I've never used one before (I'm an absolute woodworking newbie). I read somewhere on this site that these are the most dangerous pieces of equipment in the workshop. I've purchased my table specifically to round off corners, so I'm going to have to use my hands. Is there any advice anyone can give me regarding the safe use of these tables?

I calculate 'danger statistics' based on my wife's reaction to a tool, (she is a hand consultant so fixes the bits that are cut off)...
I have a router table - I don't have a table saw - so that might help with judging...
a router table is dangerous, but there are some very good guides on how to use them - direction of use is an important aspect...
think strongly before ever using small pieces on there, keep fingers well away, use push sticks etc.

 

[Michael Conifer]

Best advice was from @sploo, don’t use your sausage…

I couldn't anyway, mate. It's not big enough.

 

[worn thumbs]

Gory but useful thread. I keep weighing up whether to get a table saw and it's persuaded me that I can do without.

As an aside I keep seeing this advert pop up at the top of the screen and noticed the mention of a free push stick ...

View attachment 171529

Having clicked on the link this is one of the pictures ....

View attachment 171530
Either I'm missing something or that's not really a great idea?

I wouldn't!! Take a look near the bottom of page 1 of this: https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis16.pdf .

While I was looking around the HSE site I found this page that covers most other types of machinery: Safety topics – Working with machinery .For Michael Conifer's edification there is no mention of router tables,so I suppose it would be sensible to look at the requirements applicable to spindles as the principles are the same.Please keep in mind that these are the regulations that govern professional use.Amateurs are quite possibly less aware of the pitfalls and it gets worse if they learned their woodworking approach from American amateurs on youtube.A barrage of "yes,but" from the fortunate few who have avoided being mangled by poor practice will bounce off me on this particular topic.

 

[Michael Conifer]

Thanks, akirk. Fortunately, I know I won't be shaping anything less than 60cm in length, which will help a lot. However, after reading BarbaraT's account, kickback can throw up some seemingly unaccountable scenarios. It's not just contact with the bit which concerns me; the thought of the piece itself turning into a projectile is something else to consider.

 

[Inspector]

Gory but useful thread. I keep weighing up whether to get a table saw and it's persuaded me that I can do without.

As an aside I keep seeing this advert pop up at the top of the screen and noticed the mention of a free push stick ...

View attachment 171529

Having clicked on the link this is one of the pictures ....

View attachment 171530
Either I'm missing something or that's not really a great idea?

There is one Youboob video where someone was using those kind of push blocks while video taping for his channel. It was a piece of plywood, no riving knife, that climbed on top of the blade and spun the plywood off to the left and back. The guy's right hand was carried along with the push block, the plywood moving faster, left his hand above the blade. The push block went with the plywood and folded so the pad was verticl. His hand passed over the blade, knuckles leading with the back of the hand parallel to the saw tabletop. It just cleared the blade and he didn't get injured but was just millimetres from being cut and mangled. They showed it all in slow motion several times in the video to warn others. I won't use those kind of sawing aids because of that kind of potential accident. Your choice.

Pete

 

[Hornbeam]

Lots on this thread about how to push pieces through the saw and where to/not to put your fingers (Basically Jacob is right (I never thought Id asy that). Nobody has really commented on causes of kickback

• Use a blade that is correct for the task being done
• Make sure your blade is sharp
• Make sure riving knife is correct (it is a critical piece a piece of bodged scrap wont do)
• crown guard set correctly
• Fence set correctly. This is often wrong on 2 counts. For ripping the fence should not extend much beyond the front of the blade. The fence should be aligned so it toes out ever so slightly so it doesnt pinch material between the balde and the fence . On some saws there is so much slop in the fence particularly ones which attach front and back. With my old Wadkin I got into the habit of setting the fence always moving the fence towards the blade so any misalignment was always toeing out
• For saws with a sliding table again the table should toe out very slightly so as not to trap pieces (on the outside of the blade
• Check the piece of wood you are cutting. Easy to get into a robotic mode when cutting lots but check.
• Dont leave cut off bits next to the blade. Keep the table clear
• Use push sticks particularly towards the end of a cut and on smaller pieces. A push stick doesnt have to be a fancy item. A stick about 18 inches long with a notch and strong enough for the job

 

[Jacob]

.....Please keep in mind that these are the regulations that govern professional use.

Only advisory, not "regulations". Good as far as they go but could be better!

Amateurs are quite possibly less aware of the pitfalls and it gets worse if they learned their woodworking approach from American amateurs on youtube....

Agree

 

[Sideways]

Pete : I remember that video vividly.
Well worth watching.
Did anyone bookmark it to share here ?

 

[HOJ]

Amateurs are quite possibly less aware of the pitfalls and it gets worse if they learned their woodworking approach from American amateurs on youtube

Talking of which, worth a watch: dodgy table saw techniques

 

[Luckosaurous]

I'd add; even of you are doing everything else wrong then push sticks will at least keep your fingers away from the cutters!
Gloves can be handy for grip if you are handing roughish or large sawn timbers. Not PPE but the better grip increase control.
Kick back may be avoided with short fence so the workpiece goes free as it passes the blade.
There was mention of long push sticks - but in fact the longer they are the less they are needed as you are by definition some distance from the blade. Maybe push sticks as soon as you are reaching over beyond the edge of the table but hand-handling before that - you have to anyway to get it on to the table.

I like this way of thinking. It seems a good and easy rule to follow. Use sticks sufficiently sized that mean your hands never go above the table.


I am a bit confused by your stance of using them on the planer though. It’s another tool I haven’t used before so forgive my ignorance, but I thought that you were supposed to apply downward pressure on the outfeed, and your hand isn’t ever supposed to pass over the top of the cutting wheel. So are the gripper blocks that most people use not much better suited to that action? What’s the reasoning you suggest push sticks instead, are planers prone to kickback that pulls the hand onto the blade?

 

[Doug71]

I think this video demonstrates kickback quite well.......

 

[Hornbeam]

Full length fence, no crown guard. Properly adjusted crown guard would have stopped the piece lifting and then the blade pushing it back