Table Saw Blade advice

[Thedog]

Hello,

I have Axminster 10" table saw, still with its original blade, which has now seen better days.
I need to replace the blade, but I want a good blade for the work I need to do. I don't mind paying a bit extra for something special.

As an example of my needs, I make hardwood boards out of 25mm thick American Black Walnut, Maple, Oak and other hard woods.
A typical board is 20" square but the planks are cut to 3" strips (ripped) then glue back together (alternative species) then cut again (crosscut) into 3" strips before being glued back together.
The end result is like a chess or drafts board (Although not for this).

I want a really good blade for cutting both directions of the board, but with a good enough finish for gluing back together.

So, my question is what would be the best blade for this? A general purpose blade? What make? What about teeth style (Rake & top etc)?

For me personally, I really don't want to be changing the blades each time, unless it really has a massive benefit.

I read the Swedex and CMT blades are good and a few other high end brands, but more specifically is what style of tooth and TPI would be best?

Thank you for any any replies or advice you can give.

 

[Sideways]

I suggest downloading the Swedex catalogue because it has an excellent information section at the front.
Second, the one thing I read in you original post that concerns me is "I really don't want to be changing the blades each time, unless it really has a massive benefit."
I'm not knocking you for this as I often feel exactly the same, but you should be aware that this is a lazy attitude and yes, it does make a difference.
Consider how you'd batch up the job to do all your ripping together, then change to a crosscut blade or shift to a mitre saw for the second process.
The difference between a 20 tooth and an 80 tooth blade is not a small thing.
Tooth profile is a function of what you are cutting. For hardwood I'd expect a simple Alternative Top Bevel might suit, but read the Swedex advice. Those guys know more than any random few respondants on the internet.

 

[Fitzroy]

The more TPI the better the surface finish but the harder the saw has to work and the slower the cut. I've settled on a 40tooth Freud blade on my 250mm table saw and it seems a happy medium, replaced every year or two. However I operate the saw for perhaps 50hrs a year, if you run a professional shop you may to 10fold this work and blade longevity will be much more of a problem.

As per Sideways comment if you have sufficient volume then changing the blade for the correct operation makes sense and an alternate workflow can assist in making this feel less of a timesink.

 

[Thedog]

Thanks for your replies.
I do understand and appreciate the benefits of changing blades. however, at the moment each board is a one off with other work being done on the saw in between. If I could find a happy midway point using a general purpose blade that would be a benefit for me.
Maybe I will look at two blades, but until I have a larger batch of boards it would be good to get an all rounder for general work.

I will have a good think about this as it makes sense what you have said, and at the end of the day how long does it take to change a blade, a few minutes, so no big deal really more of a mind set.

Thanks

 

[Thedog]

Oh, I should have mentionerd, my riving knife is 2.5mm think. The original blade that came with the saw has a Kerf of 2.6mm and a blade thickness of 1.8mm, with a centre hole of 30mm.
Seems strange that this does not seem to be a common size?

 

[Sideways]

That's OK.
An industrial spec 10" blade would have a 2.2mm thick blade plate and a 3.2mm kerf.
Your 2.5mm riving knife falls between those plate and the kerf thicknesses so it still ought to work to prevent a cut pinching closed on the plate.

 

[Spectric]

I want a really good blade for cutting both directions of the board, but with a good enough finish for gluing back together.

I think many would love a one blade does everything but it really does not work out like that because you must consider not only the tooth count but also the tooth profile. For jointing boards I always run them through a P/T to get a good finish and don't expect the table saw finish to be good enough.

 

[Mike Fletcher]

I have made several chess boards and always used a rip and crosscut blade for the appropriate cuts. No tear out on the crosscut, and good clean edges. Yes, I use a zero clearance insert. I cannot compare the results with a general purpose blade because I have never tried it (on a chess board). Changing the blade is not all that difficult.

 

[deema]

There are three things that affect cut quality, the first is the blade, for a glue joint finish you need a dedicated rip and cross cut blades, high quality. @Sideways advice is spot on, the Swedex catalogue is a superb reference and their blades leave a beautiful cut.

The second is the quality of the saw build / setup / vibration damping. You need a very rigid saw, with a cast iron top and heavy construction to damp down vibration. Cast iron is the preferred material because it is one of the best materials for damping vibration; for instance high precision metal work machines are made with cast iron frames. Aluminium is terrible.

How sharp the teeth of the blade are, a blunt blade / chipped teeth not only leaves a ragged cut but also creates excessive vibration that further degrades the cut. You need to have saws resharpened by a CNC sharpening system at a specialist saw resharpener and not a manual hand sharpening methodology. The difference is night and day.

 

[johnnyb]

I agree on all the above but i much prefer a rip blade in a general purpose saw say 24 tooth. Of course if your doing cross cuts on short stuff swap the blade on your table saw. Crosscuts on longer stuff is better using an scms with a dedicated fine blade.

 

[Thedog]

Thanks for the replies.
I know it only takes minutes to changer the blade, so I think I will buy a new set of blades just for this.
Of course, a lot of the views about makes and type can be very different, depending on a lot of factors.

I am considering a set of 3 or maybe 4 blades from Freud. (see attached image for Freud numbers and costs) but are for the following 4 blades.
FR24W001T, FR24W002T, FR24W003T, & FR24W004T

These are the four recommended here:


none of these have flat top teeth, the 40T has all ATB teeth.

So my next question is:

The 60T would be good for cross cutting, but the 80T may be better.

But, because the crosscut I need to do is on a board maybe 16" - 20" would the 60T be better than the 80T.
Is it true to say the the 80T blades are more suitable for for shorter crosscuts.
Will the 80T blade clog up cutting +16" crosscuts?

What do you think?

Thanks

 

[deema]

This is just my view, but Freud blades are just a waste of metal. I’ve tried most blades, the last Freud blade I bought went into the bin after just one cut. They are cheap for a reason.

 

[Spectric]

I have used these Walker blades and they have been fine, but as @deema says the Freud blades not good and probably bright red just to catch your eye.

https://walkertools.co.uk/product-c...MI6fnKtI7_igMVXppQBh2IkQQDEAAYASAAEgLBDvD_BwE

These are also very good but slightly more expensive

https://www.sheffieldindustrialsaws.com/industrial-quality-tct-circular-saw-blades

 

[Thedog]

It does seem that this is just a matter of personal experience.
The only table saw blade I have used is the 50T contractors budget blade that came with my saw.
Which has been fine for just general purpose use, as everything gets cleaned up on my planer and or thicknesser.

I know some people who have been using Freud red blades for years and will not change, and others that wont touch them.
I also would like all the blades to have the same kerf, like the Freuds (posted above) all are 2.6mm, which is the same as what came with my saw.

I value your opinion, but its difficult as whatever blades I buy, someone will say that they are excellent and some will say they are not.
Food for thought, I suppose.

Sweedex blades look good but are so expensive when buying more than one type.
Just need a middle ground, like the Freud. Plus someone with stock and buy more than one type from the same place else postage starts adding up.

Not that many places to buy online in the UK, with a good selection. Most of the 'normal' places only offer your standard common makes.

Maybe I will have another look around before buying the Freuds????

Thanks

 

[recipio]

You should invest in two blades. For ripping down 3" hardwood a rip blade is essential. You may get away with a general purpose blade but it will strain the saw and lead to burning.
For crosscutting a 60 tooth fiine finish blade will work. I have to say I buy Freud blades and find them excellent. I have a sharpener however so touch up my own blades when necessary.

 

[deema]

Like most things, perception is reality. However, a lot of saw users haven’t used a lot of different saws or blades, so their perception is coloured by their experience. The saw itself needs to be of sufficient quality / correctly setup to benefit from a quality blade, as they say, no point putting lipstick on a pig! So first off, place a 10p or 50p coin on its edge on top of the saw table and start it up, let it run a couple of minutes then switch it off. If the coin falls over, there is a lot of vibration and you need to sort that out to get a good cut from any blade. Any saw we’ve refurbished passes this test with ease.

A blade should cut like a hot knife through butter, all too often people are cutting with dull blades or with an incorrect tooth count which creates the danger of the stuff being cut ejecting towards you. I’ve had brand new blades from low cost manufacturers that are dull from new, Freud (contractor saw blades) is one of them. Unless your pushing the stuff through too quickly (which takes some doing) if your feeling resistance it’s either a dull blade or too high tooth count / incorrect blade.

Cheaper blades have saw plates that haven’t a tension ring, that aren’t flat with low grade carbide teeth; as they heat up they expand none uniformly creating a wobble. This leads to a blade that’s not completely stable when cutting increasing resistance and because it ‘wobbles’ the cut is inferior. Now, for a lot of people, that’s absolutely fine, however, if your looking for a surface finish that’s almost as good as a planed surface, you can’t achieve it with a blade that’s not stable.

So, with my saw, with say a Swedex blade on it, I can’t manually feed the stuff through fast enough to achieve the recommended cut rate in m/ min as stated by Swedex which isn’t an issue, it just means that the saw might blunt a bit faster and not achieve the highest quality cut possible….not that I’m going to notice! Now, if I’ve planed one side, which I’m using as a reference against the fence, I have to mark it, as once cut, it’s very hard to see which is cut and which is machine planned.

Cheaper blades in general have lower quality carbide teeth that blunts faster than high quality carbide and also is again generally not very thick. This in many cases means that nice a blade is dull, it’s disposable. A quality blade will last before it needs sharpening many times longer and generally you can sharpen them five or more times. So, on balance a quality blade is a higher up front cost, but long term a much cheaper and environmentally better option with the added advantage that it will produce a far better cut.

We’ve supplied Saws we’ve refurbished with all sorts of blades, including Freud if requested. Generally we prefer to supply the saw with a quality secondhand blade that we’ve had resharpened. We test every saw before it goes to its new home, so have hands on experience of the same model of saws with different manufacturers blades on them. At the end of the day, if your happy with the blade, your all good.