Steel for plane blades

[Rob Lee]

:-$ Sheesh, Dave. Don't put Rob off; he's planning to offer HCS.
Cheers, Alf

But is that because even Rob prefers HC to A2 at a personal/professional use level? I think so from what he has mentioned in the past.

Mike

Hi -

HCS is personal choice for me... nothing wrong with A2 (and it is more popular) but I prefer to sharpen faster, and more often...

Cost is also much less - and for the same price - one could have 2-3 HCS blades....

We will have HCS as an alternative across the board, once we've sorted out supply....

Cheers -

Rob

 

[gidon]

I prefer A2 purely based on the fact that it's meant to hold an edge longer. When I get my sharpening stones out I tend to give most of the tools I've used recently a go - I don't tend to sharpen in the middle of a job like it seems a lot of you do (too messy in a small workshop) - so the longer the edge lasts the better.
Cheers
Gidon

 

[Alf]

nothing wrong with A2 (and it is more popular)

Helped by fatuous statements in the likes of FWW Tools & Shops that fails to mention the longer sharpening time and the need for a steeper bevel angle on A2 chisels. Honestly, I haven't even read all that one article yet and already smoke and fumes are emanating over all the inaccuracies. :evil: Ashley Iles are gonna just love all the enquiries about the mortise chisels they aren't making... But I digress, not to say rant.

I don't tend to sharpen in the middle of a job like it seems a lot of you do (too messy in a small workshop)

Waterstones, eh, Gidon...? :wink: :lol:

Cheers, Alf

 

[ydb1md]

nothing wrong with A2 (and it is more popular)

Helped by fatuous statements in the likes of FWW Tools & Shops that fails to mention the longer sharpening time and the need for a steeper bevel angle on A2 chisels. Honestly, I haven't even read all that one article yet and already smoke and fumes are emanating over all the inaccuracies. :evil: Ashley Iles are gonna just love all the enquiries about the mortise chisels they aren't making... But I digress, not to say rant.

I don't tend to sharpen in the middle of a job like it seems a lot of you do (too messy in a small workshop)

Waterstones, eh, Gidon...? :wink: :lol:

Cheers, Alf

Don't tell me that you and Rob are trying to get us all switch to the MkII power sharpener?! :norm:
:wink:

 

[gidon]

I don't tend to sharpen in the middle of a job like it seems a lot of you do (too messy in a small workshop)

Waterstones, eh, Gidon...? :wink: :lol:

What else?

 

[Rob Lee]

(snip)

Don't tell me that you and Rob are trying to get us all switch to the MkII power sharpener?! :norm:
:wink:

Hey - I LIKE waterstones....I just don't like like sharpening A2 on 'em, and I don't personally like diamond stones either....

I do have power sharpeners - but have always liked stones... somehow, it's part of the woodworking gestalt for me...

We all choose our own paths.... even though we're trying to get to the same place!

Cheers -

Rob

 

[MikeW]

...HCS is personal choice for me... nothing wrong with A2 (and it is more popular) but I prefer to sharpen faster, and more often...

That's because you are a wise, wise man...as well as...

...Cost is also much less - and for the same price - one could have 2-3 HCS blades....

...having our spendthrift ways in mind...

...We will have HCS as an alternative across the board, once we've sorted out supply....Cheers - Rob

...and a generous one as well!

But just to make sure your first batch of HCS is well tempered and well formed, send a set to me and I'll give 'em a proper test... :lol:

Take care, thank you for the info Rob.

Mike

 

[Philly]

I'm always a little bemused by the "A2 takes longer to sharpen" comments. I have a few Cliftons-I love the irons in them (HCS) and they sharpen easily. But when I have to sharpen an A2 blade it doesn't take THAT much more effort. What, a few extra swipes? :?
Maybe I sharpen too often ( :^o ) and my blades only need a "touch-up", but I just don't have a problem. And for the record-I'm no fan of sharpening. It's a necessary evil. :wink:
Comments?
Philly
Who is cruising for a bruising......

 

[Alf]

Don't tell me that you and Rob are trying to get us all switch to the MkII power sharpener?! :norm:
:wink:

I dread to think sometimes what Rob's trying to get us doing 8-[ :lol: , but for myself, ab-so-lute-ly not. You're looking at someone who's kicked the power grinder out of the workshop without a pang. It lives with the lathe now; a terrible tailed spinning cabal plotting to take over the garage. 8-[

Cheers, Alf

 

[ydb1md]

(snip)

Don't tell me that you and Rob are trying to get us all switch to the MkII power sharpener?! :norm:
:wink:

Hey - I LIKE waterstones....I just don't like like sharpening A2 on 'em, and I don't personally like diamond stones either....

I do have power sharpeners - but have always liked stones... somehow, it's part of the woodworking gestalt for me...

We all choose our own paths.... even though we're trying to get to the same place!
Cheers -

Rob

I agree -- I like waterstones too. Somehow they're more organic and tactile.

I'm curious to try the HCS irons once they are released.

 

[Alf]

I have a few Cliftons-I love the irons in them (HCS) and they sharpen easily. But when I have to sharpen an A2 blade it doesn't take THAT much more effort. What, a few extra swipes? :?

Try on oilstones.

And before everyone jumps on me and says "Ah ha, you dinosaur. See what happens when you use ancient rocks hewn from your neanderthal cave?" [-X ], I'd like to point out a few things. I like oilstones. I like the feel of them under good carbon steel. A2 feels wrong. I like the fact I'm putting rust preventing oil on my tools rather than rust-inducing water. I like the fact they cost me peanuts... I even like the smell of neatsfoot oil. I was happy with my oilstones, after much trying out of other systems, and had no desire to change having found sharpening happiness. I didn't want to have to play silly pippers (pardon my Klatchian) just to satisfy blasted A2 steel. 'Course a couple of blades I could cope with, and I didn't complain (much), 'cos it didn't take proportionally that much longer in the big sharpening scheme of things. But it's got hopelessly out of hand now. Everywhere I look there's A2 steel; which is nice in that I have new tools to play with, I grant you, but I hate sharpening too, and it gets me down. Once more I've ventured out into the "which sharpening system to use" wilderness, got hopelessly lost, and am struggling along learning a fresh system. You've absolutely no idea how much I hate it; it really depresses me that I've been chucked back to square one like this.

Sorry, what was the question?

Oh yeah. I have theories (surprise) It's not each individual blade taking longer. It's all those accumulated blades adding up to so much longer overall, I think. Plus, when you get in the sharpening groove, after a lot of practice over the years, I think just a couple of seconds more can seem like an eternity. I'm no great shakes as a sharpener, but I like to flatter myself I'd reached the "hone and get back to work" stage. Added swipes seem like an awful lot extra effort when you've managed to pare down just how long it takes to touch up a blade edge to the absolute minimum. Also the longer it takes the more opportunity I have to muck it up...

And I miss my oilstone. Did I mention that? Sharpened up my ordinary, bog standard steel pocket knife on it the other day. Done in a brace of shakes and wickedly sharp. Sigh.

Cheers, Alf

Are they doing Olympic Ranting in 2012? I think I may be a dead cert for the team if I put in a little more practice...

 

[MikeW]

I'm always a little bemused by the "A2 takes longer to sharpen" comments. ...But when I have to sharpen an A2 blade it doesn't take THAT much more effort. What, a few extra swipes? :?
Comments? Philly
Who is cruising for a bruising......

Oh, you knew you'd get a response from me, didn't you? :lol:

I have spent the last couple months counting strokes and time on two different powered sharpeners. What? How daft is that?

Really. I had a purpose. While strokes are dependent on more than mere iterations of end-to-end on a stone and are therefore somewhat subjective, the powered sharpeners are less so. More controlled conditions.

Simple observations would be that A2 and harder steels take both more back and forth iterations and a greater pressure, significantly so on the iterations imo. But count 'em. If you can refresh a HC blade in 10-15 (pick a number) strokes on 3 different stones and A2 took only 5 more per stone, what's the ratio? Now do that on the 3-4 planes you are typically using on a project. 1 to 3 times a day for me sometimes, at least for the larger bench planes.

But the difference is actually greater than that. The wear on the equipment (stones, PSA discs, etc) is also greater. I really do have to flatten my King waterstones more frequently when honing a batch of A2. With the Shaptons, it is less so, except on the lower grits.

I use Shaptons personally, which really do cut significantly faster than a waterstone. The reality is, one of the costs Rob is talking about has something to do with the post heat treatment processing. It simply takes longer and uses more materials than HCS. And, I believe, for very marginal benefits.

I can refresh a paring chisel in a couple strokes on a Shapton 2000 grit stone while working (it sits on the bench). Same with a plane iron. But, that's if they are HCS. When I need to do an A2, it does take longer.

But...these are personal observations. And to some degree personal bias. No one is attempting to convert anyone and is just good dialog.

Take care,

Mike

 

[dedee]

just supposin' I had a number of planes/chisels of varying makes and age. How would I know what they are made of?

Andy

 

[Chris Knight]

Andy,
A time honoured way is to touch the iron to a grindstone and look at the sparks. HC steel emits a shower of orange sparks with lots of forks off them. Other steels perform differently. I am sure there is a picture out there somewhere..


Here you go. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spark_testing_metals

 

[Alf]

just supposin' I had a number of planes/chisels of varying makes and age. How would I know what they are made of?

I'll take a wild shot in the dark and guess "steel"...

Getting her coat, Alf

 

[bugbear]

and the need for a steeper bevel angle on A2 chisels.

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=bescset

The bevel is flat ground at 30°, but a higher secondary bevel (about 35°) is advisable,

By all the lemmings of the nether Hells! You're right! Big of a pipper if you want an ultra-parer (e.g. 20 degree single bevel)

BugBear

 

[Alf]

By all the lemmings of the nether Hells!

That's right up there with "Rissoles", BB.

You're right!

It has been known before... :roll:

Apparently they jacked up the bevel angle 'cos the blooming things were chipping out. I have to say, had I realised that before I bought them, I might have hesitated, oh, 30 seconds longer. As it is, a set in something other than A2 would be nice... Makes the long "paring" handles a bit redundant to my mind. :?

Cheers, Alf

 

[ydb1md]

Sooooo . . . . .

Is this one of those cases where newer seemed better, but it wasn't, so we had to fall back and punt?

:-k

If anyone suggests D2 plane blades do we get to tar and feather them?

:roll:

 

[Midnight]

It's not each individual blade taking longer. It's all those accumulated blades adding up to so much longer overall, I think.

6 blades, all of em A2... 5 honed with the Mk2 and one freehand.. 10 mins done n dusted... no rust.... minimal mess.... zero hassle....

gotta looooooove waterstones..

a couple o quick wipes ofer the stone an its good t go...

<shrugs...

maybe its just me....

 

[Anonymous]

A2 for me without a doubt. I don't find it hard to sharpen at all on the fine DMT stone followed by the 6000 grit waterstone. 1 minute max. once in the honing guide

I'm interested in your point about HCS giving a sharper edge Chris. How did you determine this? Is it just the feel of the tool in use or some other way?

Also, how do you sharpen the A2's you have?