Statins and statistics

[Jacob]

Bound to be some older members, even experts, going through this!
I was on to Atorvastatin but it gave me aches and pains. Now Rosuvastatin which is a real PITA (constipation) and giving it up.
Both of them made life a bit grim and I don't intend to take any more. 80 next birthday.
Just checking out the stats https://www.britishjournalofnursing.com/content/regulars/statins-the-risks-and-statistics/#:~:text='AR of 0.8% for all,, and 14%, respectively.
Didn't know the difference between AR and RR but I do now!
What does the panel think?
How to balance the AR against the tedious daily side effects?

 

[Spectric]

I think that the longer lifespan we experience today and that has now apparently peaked is down to the fact we don't really live longer but are supported by medication to keep us going, ok some will succeed without but I dare say they would be the minority and it is medication that keeps a lot of us going.

There has to be more to statins than just lowering cholesterol otherwise why do people with low cholesterol end up on them ?

To much info out there so really data overload and hard to come to any real conclusions, it does seem that with any underlying medical heart condition or risk of strokes that the benefits do out weigh the risk but for just lowering your cholesterol then it seems to be better to adjust diet and lifestyle.

 

[Ollie78]

I saw a story a while back which said that a very large percentage of statin prescriptions are completely unnecessary. Stating it to be the most overprescribed drug in history.
In many cases they are prescribed after a suspected stroke, heart issue etc, almost as a knee jerk reaction, sort of "well why not, it might help". Then people are just on them forever with no further blood work or checks.
Both my parents are on them and my Mother even asked the doc if she really needed them, he was sort of shocked anyone would ask if they could get off them, they agreed to lower the dose.

I am sure they save many lives in the right circumstances but it looks like they are being given out like sweeties to all and sundry.

 

[Yojevol]

It's an economic equation. It's cheaper to dish out statins as widely as possible rather than treat the heart disease there would otherwise be. Therefore we all benefit. We are crying out for the NHS to be more efficient; this is one way of doing it.
Brian

 

[John Brown]

I've been on atorvastatin for about 15 years. I stopped taking it for a while a long time ago, because I had aches and pains.
Next time I had a blood test, my GP said my cholesterol was up, and wanted to increase the dose, I told him I'd stopped taking it. He asked me if the aches and pains had gone away, I had to admit they hadn't. I've been taking it ever since. I'm not saying it's all psychosomatic, but I think as one gets older, aches and pains manifest themselves, we look on the internet and blame the statins.
Having said that, I know there are some who do have very serious side effects, but I believe it's a very small percentage. Bit like the vast number of people who claim to be gluten intolerant, versus the tiny number who really are, or the even tinier fraction who are coeliac.

 

[Spectric]

because I had aches and pains.

I think we associate the aches and pains with the statins because we do have more aches and pains with age but also with age we are seeing the end results of our younger years such as lifestyle, diet and general abuse that results in such conditions that statins do help. Maybe if they were to educate at a younger age and teach good diet and to avoid junk food then it would help resolve the end game of statins for future generations.

 

[Tris]

A few months ago I was prescribed simvastatin as I'm mid 50s, cholesterol going up slightly over the last couple of years, and a family history of high cholesterol but no heart disease.
Within three weeks I was unable to stand up out of bed without holding something and shoulders were too sore to pull start the machines at work. If that's what old age feels like I shall be more sympathetic in future

 

[John Brown]

There you go, Jacob! Wildly different experiences.
You should look up the statistics - this forum is not a big enough sample to be representative of the big picture.

 

[John Brown]

I think we associate the aches and pains with the statins because we do have more aches and pains with age but also with age we are seeing the end results of our younger years such as lifestyle, diet and general abuse that results in such conditions that statins do help. Maybe if they were to educate at a younger age and teach good diet and to avoid junk food then it would help resolve the end game of statins for future generations.

I've never really eaten junk food. Genetics and smoking did it for me.

 

[Yojevol]

Bound to be some older members, even experts, going through this!
I was on to Atorvastatin but it gave me aches and pains. Now Rosuvastatin which is a real PITA (constipation) and giving it up.
Both of them made life a bit grim and I don't intend to take any more. 80 next birthday.
Just checking out the stats https://www.britishjournalofnursing.com/content/regulars/statins-the-risks-and-statistics/#:~:text='AR of 0.8% for all,, and 14%, respectively.
Didn't know the difference between AR and RR but I do now!
What does the panel think?
How to balance the AR against the tedious daily side effects?

You can calculate your risk of heart disease using the QRISK2 algorithm but you need all the relevant data to feed into it. I did this a couple of years ago because I didn't believe what my GP practice nurse was telling me. My risk of heart disease over the next 10 years was calculated to be 24% compared with 21% if my cholesterol was at an average for my peer group, ie, AR=3%, RR=12.5%.
I'm on atorvastin with no side effects.
Have a look at this:-
https://www.albanyhousemedicalcentr....&text=QRISK2 of 10-20%.,in the next 10 years.
Brian
PS. I'm doing this at this unearthly hour because I'm wide awake with a streaming summer cold

 

[MikeJhn]

I was told by my GP that the constipation I was experiencing was coincidental and nothing to do with the Statin he had put me on, stopped taking them and I suddenly did not have constipation.

 

[John Brown]

I was told by my GP that the constipation I was experiencing was coincidental and nothing to do with the Statin he had put me on, stopped taking them and I suddenly did not have constipation.

To be fair, that could still be coincidence.

 

[mrpercysnodgrass]

My doctor said if you had a room full of cardiac consultants all of them would be on statins weather they needed them or not as it is seen as a preventative medication!!

 

[imageel]

As @Yojevol says the dishing out of these drugs are largely driven by statistics gained from large datasets that make the comments of a few posters on this forum insignificant.
After years of suffering harmless arrhythmias for many years last year I had a few prolonged AF episodes resulting in me being blue-lamped to A&E 3 times and where it took 4h or so each time to find a drug that would bring me back into a sinus rhythm. Along with that I have suffered numerous visual disturbances which they attribute to likely TIA's since the AF increases the risk 5-fold of me having a stroke.
Earlier this year I was also put on statins even though my 'bad' cholesterol was really low, and this is based once again on studies that show statins have other effects that lower the risks of thrombotic episodes.
For me the fact is numerous scans -MRI and doppler don't show any evidence of stroke or vascular disease, but statistically it's seen as a precautionary measure.

The fact is the NHS has been underfunded for donkeys' and now as we all live longer we need to take these drugs to minimise these risks, since as in my case the burden of a life changing stroke or vision loss is far greater than the side effects I might suffer from the cocktail of medications I take.

It is for this reason I'm selling up - workshop, tools and house since continuing to live in a rural area is too risky for me

 

[imageel]

My doctor said if you had a room full of cardiac consultants all of them would be on statins weather they needed them or not as it is seen as a preventative medication!!

As I just posted - some research already shows this to be the case

 

[Lons]

I have mild hypertension which over many years has stayed at around the same level and was perfectly acceptable but the advised threshold has ben dropped a couple of times so now it's not. I agreed to take a minimum dose of Amlodipine which has made a little difference so now fine and get a full check up every 12 months. I have been offered statins several times which I refused, (cholesterol is well within limits). Doc said they are advised to offer statins as a matter of course and as stated as a preventative medication. The interesting thing is that when I check my online medical records there are notes that I "refused statins" even though the doc agreed I most likely don't need them.

As others have said, there are plenty of statistics and research available on statins for anyone with the will to google.

 

[Spectric]

I was told by my GP that the constipation I was experiencing was coincidental and nothing to do with the Statin he had put me on, stopped taking them and I suddenly did not have constipation.

It might have been better to supplement the statins with prunes rather than stop the statins .

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Fortunately I get no side effects from my prescription drugs.

Atorvastatin
Aspirin
Metformin
Gliclazide
Linagliptin
Dapagliflozin
Levothyroxine
Omeprazole
Meloxicam
Allopurinol
Tamsulosin
Lisinopril
Amlopidine
Codeine
Pregabalin
Pioglitazone.

 

[Jacob]

A few months ago I was prescribed simvastatin as I'm mid 50s, cholesterol going up slightly over the last couple of years, and a family history of high cholesterol but no heart disease.
Within three weeks I was unable to stand up out of bed without holding something and shoulders were too sore to pull start the machines at work. If that's what old age feels like I shall be more sympathetic in future

Similar experience with Atorvastatin. Lost power in arms and couldn't get out of bed without a great manoeuvre to get myself on to all fours first. Ditto the bath, which was quite alarmingly difficult.
Doctor didn't seem to think it was cause and effect but I think he was wrong.

 

[Jacob]

It might have been better to supplement the statins with prunes rather than stop the statins .

I do very healthy diet, lots of oats, nuts, fruit, prunes even. Makes no difference.
Stopped taking the Rosuvastatin, almost instant improvement and now ******** like a cart horse!
Also I arrived at blaming rosuvastatin by process of elimination (no pun intended) i.e. trying different approaches. Diet, more exercise, more water, giving up alcohol, giving up cheese and other dairy products etc etc. and endless google searches. Senna pills help, but nothing else.
I appreciate the general statistical picture but there are obviously big individual variations in reaction - the makers do a long list of possible side effects themselves, from fairly common to very rare.
Surely these lists are meaningless if I'm expected to ignore my own apparent reactions?
https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/rosuvastatin-oral-route/side-effects/drg-20065889
https://www.nhs.uk/medicines/rosuvastatin/side-effects-of-rosuvastatin/