Startrite 352 electrical components

[Doug B]

I’m trying to help a mate out with his old startrite 352, it’s in a very sorry state with a few problems one of which is the starter, an electrical type friend has looked at it & suggested replacing the whole thing this is it.

I can find the contacter on line but wondered if anyone could point me in the direction of a complete unit or where to source the three parts please.

 

[sneggysteve]

Try spares

 

[flh801978]

Is it definately dead in some areas?
it looks fine usually theres signs of burning around the contacts
thats not original fitment to a startrite so its been replaced before i would think

have you the means to test it?
apply mains to the coil to see if it pulls in
check continuity across the contacts
check again over the overload

screwfix do do DOL starters in a box quite cheap which have the same components within
if you do order one from them get the right overl;oad as well
https://www.screwfix.com/p/hylec-dms1-11d-s-automatic-dol-electric-motor-starter-5-5kw/8911gIan

 

[deema]

It’s a contactor with a current trip. I respectfully suggest you get an industrial electrician to sort it out for you. By asking the question I know you don’t have the skills necessary to fix it. They are simple devices but I’ve opened up more than one machine to find that they have been wired incorrectly and would not trip out properly. My old adage is that you know you shouldn’t fiddle with the gas supply to your home, however it’s less deadly than electricity. You can smell gas, test for leaks and need just right the mixture for it to explode. Electricity just kills you if you get it wrong, or best case you try to stop the saw and it wont, the next best case you end up with a fire in the motor That Disney burn down your house / workshop.
I’ve had a machine motor set on fire when the over current trip was faulty.

 

[Doug B]

Is it definately dead in some areas?
it looks fine usually theres signs of burning around the contacts
thats not original fitment to a startrite so its been replaced before i would think

have you the means to test it?
apply mains to the coil to see if it pulls in
check continuity across the contacts
check again over the overload

screwfix do do DOL starters in a box quite cheap which have the same components within
if you do order one from them get the right overl;oad as well
https://www.screwfix.com/p/hylec-dms1-11d-s-automatic-dol-electric-motor-starter-5-5kw/8911gIan

As I say my electrician friend did all the testing I know he bridged out the switch part as this was definitely faulty (choc block in the first photo) but still couldn’t get the coil to hold in I believe this is why he suggested a complete replacement, I’m merely trying to see if I can source a like for like part if not he will fit a surface mounted DOL starter but the owner would prefer to keep it original which I can understand.

 

[mccpe]

I found the data sheet online:
https://www.wolseley.co.uk/wcsstore...d.lang.all/to/rs/Danfoss-CI_TI-contactors.pdf

It shows the contactor and thermal overload, but it doesn’t look like the the auxiliary switch is listed. Is the aux switch wired in to energise the contactor coil? If taking the switch out and replacing it with a chock block means that you can start the machine by giving it mains power, then the contactor obviously works. The thermal overload is also probably fine. I would get a can of contact cleaner and liberally spray the switch to see if if comes back to life.

edit: rereading your post I see that the contactor won’t hold in, so maybe that needs renewing, but contact cleaner may also be your friend here.

 

[deema]

Get another electrician, if they are advising a new DOL as they can’t replace the parts (bog standard off the shelf stuff) they are charlatans and probably don’t know what they are doing.

If the contactor will pull in, it’s unlikely to be faulty. Possibly the NC contact on the overload. This is a really quick check, and probably just the overload relay needs swapping. In any case any sparky who knows what they are doing will within 2 mins be able to check exactly what’s wrong / which part is faulty.

Domestic sparkies dint seem to know anything about industrial stuff, even the most simple stuff like this. You need an industrial sparky.
You can buy pre-wired DOLs which means they don’t need to know anything, but worse still won’t know how to test the system.

 

[Doug B]

Thanks for your helpful reply @mccpe the electrician had kindly looked at the saw last summer when my friend had had the same problem of the saw not working, the housing where this sits was full of dust & he commented then about the poor design of putting components which should be in a sealed box in such a position within the frame of the saw.

At that time he blew the switch out with compressed air & cleaned it with contact cleaner as you suggest & got it working, it’s been fine for 10 months. I’m now wondering if he’s suggesting a new dol starter as obviously this is going to happen again as when he dismantled it this time it was again covered in dust. Sadly this time cleaning it didn’t help the switch wasn’t working correctly he was able to show me this & although he could get the saw going the coil wouldn’t stay in.

He is very kindly looking at the saw a as favour to me & he is very busy his day job is much larger machines than bandsaws so I offered to source any parts as I also need to get a new drive belt & change the bearings in the motor as they literally squeal.
Whilst googling this problem I came across a forum thread where the chap had exactly the same fault I noticed nine fingers (myfordman on here) suggested a new dol starter so probably that is the best way to proceed.

 

[dickm]

If I remember correctly (doesn't always happen these days!) I replaced the entire unit on my 352 10 or 15 years ago. Possibly have the receipt somewhere, so will have a look. Since it's a standard Danfoss unit (or was then!) they might be able to point you to a stockist.
And if anyone wants an original 3-phase motor for a 352, I have one going begging!

 

[dickm]

If it's any help, I've found a list of UK "Premium" Danfoss dealers, but not in a form I can easily post it on here. If the OP is interested, let me know location and this may suggest your nearest dealer.

 

[NetBlindPaul]

The parts that you need are basic machinery spares and the sort of stuff that I have on my van still, including the overload in the event of needing them because they are common. Any electrician competent to do this kind of repair should be able to advise on the compatibility and suitably of other manufacturers parts for this application.
Yes, dust ingress is an issue on these machines but it is possible with a little thought to minimise it.
I have never fitted a Danfoss contactor in my 30+ years even if it was what I removed.
I would replace it with the product that I carried which would have been Schneider.

 

[Fitzroy]

The complexity with the 352 is that it has mechanical interlocks that interact with the contactor, if you change to another dol you’ll likely lose this functionality, the same could happen if you swap parts that are a different size.
Fitz

 

[JimmyStartrite]

Domestic sparkies and industrial sparkies are 2 different things, I was a service engineer for Startrite for years and I would get domestic sparkies phoning me up asking for advice because their owners were too tight to pay me to fix it in the first place.

all that is available to buy online in 1ph and 3ph, if you have a 1 ph machine the capacitor might be shagged aswell

ELECTRICAL EQUIPMENT - Machine Spares

I would recommend changing out all 3 as that could be old school switch gear thats slightly different nowadays even though its the same spec and manufacturer ( a lot of asbestos in old electrical equipment) but if you or your electrical man dont know what you are doing, pay someone who does or you could make it worse.

 

[Spectric]

Your problem is probably because you have a domestic electrician and not one familiar with industrial electrics, they are really very different trades because these days they have fast tracked the route for domestic installers who are not "real" in the sense fully trained and qualified sparkies and do not do apprenticeships. Saying that a qualified sparkie is more than capable of domestic and many do so for bread and butter work.

 

[Doug B]

I really don’t know why the thread has gone on about electricians the chap who fixed it a couple of weeks ago now wasn’t a domestic electrician.
After I’d changed the bearings in the motor I took it over to him & explained I hadn’t managed to source the parts so he offered to get them much to my relief.
This he did & we went over & got the saw working again with all the interlocks working, we added draught excluder to the steel box that houses the switch & taped around the fixing tab that extends into the upper wheel housing as this appeared to be where most of the dust was getting in.
I like to thank everyone who contacted me via pm to offer help it was much appreciated, most importantly my elderly friend is now able to cut up his turning blanks once more which as he’s had a year of shielding means he can get back turning to break up the monotony.

 

[Jacob]

.....
I like to thank everyone who contacted me via pm to offer help it was much appreciated, most importantly my elderly friend is now able to cut up his turning blanks once more which as he’s had a year of shielding means he can get back turning to break up the monotony.

That's good then.
352s do collect dust in various parts of the chassis - I give mine a blast in every orifice with the blow end of a vacuum cleaner every now and then. I don't think it'd suck out it tends to settle fairly densely.
Electrics have never failed in 40 or so years. One new bearing. 2 or 3 new belts. 1000 new blades.